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I want too pull 10000 lb. Toy Hauler with 23 F-150 and 4 inch BDS Lift LOL

Mtnman1

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I appreciate the read on this. I learned a few things. The most important thing is what I don't know about towing may kill me. My wife is usually my teacher on that general subject.

Ford makes an excellent line of HD trucks. Get one with a deisel. They have the weight, power, and frame to handle this stuff.
Also, you cannot go by trailors weight in specs. That is dry weight.....you need to add EVERTHING you put in it. All your cloths, food, utensils, tools, cookware, anything in water or waste tanks, and whatever toy you are getting toy hauler for....

This is likely adding 1k in weight if not much more.
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Northguy

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Thanks for all the advise. I appreciate the ride.
Here is a link to someone that did something very close to what you were asking about. His trailer was close to your weight but 6-7 ft shorter. Note he didn't like his WDH due to sway and also watched his transmission temp closely. So people do it, most of us would not. Just want you to have another's opinion.

His payload would not have been as high as your but didn't have your mods/larger tires either.


https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...dsport-toy-hauler-with-3-5l-powerboost.17790/
 

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@1911falcon--If you substitute the toy hauler in for a smaller trailer, I think that you're likely to get into a much safer setup. It's certainly possible to find a toy hauler that an F150 could pull, but it's incredibly unlikely...especially if you want to actually haul the toy in it. Nearly all toy haulers that I've seen appear to be designed to be in F350 territory (often even outside of F250 ranges).

I think that I saw that you had a 1897 payload sticker--that's pretty good for towing in an F150. If you're going to stick with a lifted truck/modified suspension, I would recommend viewing that TFL video someone posted a few pages back, and take those payload reduction estimates into account as well.

Based upon your payload rating, to start your trailer search, I would assume that you could reasonably safely pull a travel trailer around 6-7000 lbs. With your payload, it's possible that you could even swing 8000 lbs if you minimize the rest of the weight your truck is carrying. Regardless, I would recommend running the numbers on each of the ratings (axle, gross vehicle, gross combined, payload, frontal area, etc.) to ensure that your setup is within specs for all of them.

I was in a similar situation a few years back where I purchased a truck, and then purchased a trailer that that truck could tow...assuming that my young kids never grew. When they turned into teenagers, I ended up several hundred pounds over my payload rating, and the driving was starting to feel a bit unsafe, so I had to buy a new truck. I know that it's difficult to estimate trailer tongue weights based upon trailer manufacturer specs, since they publish misleading "dry weights". For estimating purposes, I would assume that you will carry ~1000 lbs of gear (clothes, food, camp chairs, water, propane, etc), so add 1000lbs to the published dry weight, and then take 15% of that number to estimate a realistic ballpark number for your guesstimated tongue weight.
 

Paul FP

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I'm thankful to say I do not. Lots of towing experience but not anything like you describe with an F150, by choice.

Just FYI, from the 2023 RV & Trailer Towing Guide, this is the aerodynamic drag factor consideration ...

(trailer frontal area is [ground to roof high-point] x [trailer width])

Per Heartland specs for your Fuel F-305 that's [12.83'] x [8'] = 103 sq. ft.

That's 171% of the recommended max for your truck.

Ummm, yeah, sure :cautious:

Pages from 2023-Ford-RV-and-Trailer-Towing-Guide.pdf.jpg
First-time commenter here, so please be kind. LOL. Hadn't seen this before - thanks for providing! One question: What ratio would you be comfortable with? We're planning to buy a Lance 1995, GVWR 7k, and tow with an F-150. But even the sf on that would be around 80. Even 16-foot Airstreams exceed the 60sf limits. Am I missing something elementary? Thanks very much.
 

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First-time commenter here, so please be kind. LOL. Hadn't seen this before - thanks for providing! One question: What ratio would you be comfortable with? We're planning to buy a Lance 1995, GVWR 7k, and tow with an F-150. But even the sf on that would be around 80. Even 16-foot Airstreams exceed the 60sf limits. Am I missing something elementary? Thanks very much.
My opinion here on this mixed with my last 12 years of travel trailers is this, the sq footage of frontage is a good recommendation from the manufacturer as drag and wind effect is a major player on travel trailers for sure. I can say that most recommendations of square footage are hard to quantify and is not exactly a legal requirement to stick to.

Example, stick and tun travel trailer has a frontal sqft of 60, well if you take into account the dimpled aluminum siding on a stick and tin unit I can say without a doubt there’s a LOT more drag when compared to a 26ft 5th wheel with fiberglass sides that is higher and an advertised sqft of 80. The side wind and overall length and material construction are more factors that just frontal sqft in my opinion, I would 100% take the 5th wheel in that example(I had both, small cougar 1/2ton 5th wheel and an old stick and tin 27’ TT)

Common sense with anything is that if it’s windy 20-30 mph or more, I’m not driving in it regardless of the travel trailer to truck ratio, semi trucks start to reconsider at that point.
 

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First-time commenter here, so please be kind. LOL. Hadn't seen this before - thanks for providing! One question: What ratio would you be comfortable with? We're planning to buy a Lance 1995, GVWR 7k, and tow with an F-150. But even the sf on that would be around 80. Even 16-foot Airstreams exceed the 60sf limits. Am I missing something elementary? Thanks very much.
I sincerely hope my non-answer will be taken as 'kind' .....

I'm loath to give the requested opinion on this; I realize that many if not most RV's exceed the Ford guidance. In my case my narrow 7'-4"W x 10'H (73SF) 5th-wheel RV is within their recommended (and likely conservative) 75SF limit for my truck.

We all obviously see F150's pulling RV's exceeding that "frontal Area Consideration" recommendation. The consequence of frontal area is aerodynamic drag which increases exponentially with speed (velocity is squared in the aerodynamic drag equation) and, in combination with gross trailer weight, bears on engine, transmission, and drivetrain stress. Maybe worth noting that the separate 'shape factor' in the drag equation, within the practical limits of RV trailer packaging, has fractional effect on drag (you simply can't affect drag much at all within a shape that accommodates RV living requirements, hype to the contrary notwithstanding).

How much frontal area is too much frontal area? I honestly don't know, nor do I know how quickly that may manifest as a 'problem' in any given driving situation (it may only manifest as a reduction in long-term vehicle / component health).

All I will opine is that the OP's situation, significantly exceeding the aero-factor while also pushing the limits of the GTW factor, combine to create a situation I would avoid. Your proposed ~115% frontal area and 7k (max) GTWR are much less than his 'loads' and likely will impose much lower stress on your vehicle, especially if you temper your speed.

Sounds like a 'politicians non-answer', eh? Well, it is what it is, I'm not gonna stick my neck out on this one with some WAG hard number, you're just gonna have to be guided by your own best judgment, good sir. :)
 
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Paul FP

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My opinion here on this mixed with my last 12 years of travel trailers is this, the sq footage of frontage is a good recommendation from the manufacturer as drag and wind effect is a major player on travel trailers for sure. I can say that most recommendations of square footage are hard to quantify and is not exactly a legal requirement to stick to.

Example, stick and tun travel trailer has a frontal sqft of 60, well if you take into account the dimpled aluminum siding on a stick and tin unit I can say without a doubt there’s a LOT more drag when compared to a 26ft 5th wheel with fiberglass sides that is higher and an advertised sqft of 80. The side wind and overall length and material construction are more factors that just frontal sqft in my opinion, I would 100% take the 5th wheel in that example(I had both, small cougar 1/2ton 5th wheel and an old stick and tin 27’ TT)

Common sense with anything is that if it’s windy 20-30 mph or more, I’m not driving in it regardless of the travel trailer to truck ratio, semi trucks start to reconsider at that point.
Thanks very much. The Lance also has a curved front end, which I assume helps a bit in terms of drag.

Ford F-150 I want too pull 10000 lb. Toy Hauler with 23 F-150 and 4 inch BDS Lift LOL Image of Lance 1995
 

amschind

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The sticker on the door jamb is irrelevant because he raised a large portion of the mass of the truck up 5.5" (1/2 tire diameter increase over 33"+4" lift) and the remainder up 1.5". The engine is working significantly harder even without a trailer (see all of the folks who lifted their trucks and found mileage falling from 24 to 18 MPG), while a truck with the same mass and a significantly higher CG is trying to stabilize a trailer that would be pushing it for an HDPP F150.

I have zero doubt that it would be possible to accelerate his toy hauler to 90 MPH even in a headwind; everyone with a 3.5 (and likely a 5.0) has the power to do that. The PB has substantially more power than a diesel 1-ton did 20 years ago, but it still has a much lower tow rating; why? Because the limiting factor for safe towing is NOT ACCELERATING the load, but STOPPING it and CONTROLLING SWAY.

The big issue for this use case is that not only is he hauling a voluminous and heavy trailer, he is also doing so on inclines, over long distance and through wide open spaces known for high and unpredictable winds. Pulling that trailer over a 40 minute drive to get it home or go camping might fall into the "you can do it, but I'd be really careful and drive slow" category. That is not the OP's question. He wants to pull a heavy and giant sail behind a truck with a compromised suspension over long distances with an extreme risk of crosswinds. The absolute best case is a line of cars behind an overloaded F150 flying past him and flipping him the bird as he putters along at 40 MPH because he saw his life flash before his eyes when an 18 wheeler passed him earlier in the trip. The worst case is that the state troopers don't even bother calling an ambulance.
 

Paul FP

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I sincerely hope my non-answer will be taken as 'kind' .....

I'm loath to give the requested opinion on this; I realize that many if not most RV's exceed the Ford guidance. In my case my narrow 7'-4"W x 10'H (73SF) 5th-wheel RV is within their recommended (and likely conservative) 75SF limit for my truck.

We all obviously see F150's pulling RV's exceeding that "frontal Area Consideration" recommendation. The consequence of frontal area is aerodynamic drag which increases exponentially with speed (velocity is squared in the aerodynamic drag equation) and, in combination with gross trailer weight, bears on engine, transmission, and drivetrain stress. Maybe worth noting that the separate 'shape factor' in the drag equation, within the practical limits of RV trailer packaging, has fractional effect on drag (you simply can't affect drag much at all within a shape that accommodates RV living requirements, hype to the contrary notwithstanding).

How much frontal area is too much frontal area? I honestly don't know, nor do I know how quickly that may manifest as a 'problem' in any given driving situation (it may only manifest as a reduction in long-term vehicle / component health).

All I will opine is that the OP's situation, significantly exceeding the aero-factor while also pushing the limits of the GTW factor, combine to create a situation I would avoid. Your proposed ~115% frontal area and 7k (max) GTWR are much less than his 'loads' and likely will impose much lower stress on your vehicle, especially if you temper your speed.

Sounds like a 'politicians non-answer', eh? Well, it is what it is, I'm not gonna stick my neck out on this one with some WAG hard number, you're just gonna have to be guided by your own best judgment, good sir. :)
Many thanks for the thoughtful, in-depth reply. Very helpful. As noted in a different comment, I was hoping that the curved front of the Lance would provide some relief on the drag, but you seen skeptical. The good news is that I have no intention of surpassing 60 with a trailer attached. We're in no hurry. Likewise, we would like to stay 400 pounds below the trailer's 7k GVWR. I'd like to avoid moving up to a 250, but that if that's what is required, so be it. Thanks again.
 

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It seems like there's a consensus that trying to tow a 10,000lbs toy hauler with a 1/2 ton is a bad idea. I'm not even going to bring up the fact that it will have a 4 inch lift kit.

The only way to know for sure whether the trailer is too big is to load it up how you normally would and then take it to a certified scale. Find out how much weight the trailer adds to the drive axle weight.

I'm 90% certain that if you load this trailer up the way you want, you will be over the rear axle weight rating (not payload, but rear axle weight rating) of a stock F150 in any configuration.
 

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Interesting reading. My wife and I went through a roughly similar process a number of years back. We eventually figured out the same thing; that the trailer we wanted to pull with our 3.5EB F150 wasn't possible/wasn't safe.

So we went the opposite route; we bought an E450-based Class C and tow our toad (our equivalent to the OP's toy). The V10 handles everything quite well. The only downside is the 8-9mpg. However, even with a full load it stays at 8-9mpg. So, no surprises.

Not saying this is what the OP should do. Am saying that safety (for us, the people around us, and our equipment) is Job 1 so that's what we did.
 
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1911falcon

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What the OP DID

So the 4 inch BDS kit was using Fox Shocks, That was my proposed setup on this truck to pull the TT. Now that I've went through some egg on face time over this deal I've surely learned a few things.

I decided to go to a 3.5 inch lift Ready Lift and use 295/70 or 75 tires. Using Bilstein shocks.
Why: Because, after the lesson I learned on the payloads etc. and then adding in the matching up of TT to hitch and keeping everything level. It was easier and less expensive and safer over all.

Cost: BDS kit was 2,550 plus install another 1,200.00 Plus I was going to have a issue lining up the truck hitch to the TT hitch.

3.5 inch kit was under a 1000,

Wheels, I decided to stay with my current factory 18 inch wheel and run the 35/1150's

I'm added a super spring to stop the sag.

I'm adding Super Stop brakes front and back again just for safety concerns of pulling TT.

Weight I'll be pulling now vs the original weight I wanted to to pull.

I was going to pull a 8,620 lb TT plus a 1,700 lb. Toy and another 800 to 1000 lbs. of the wife and I, tanks, generator, food, cloths WDS etc. (Plus actual weight)
Now it's turn to pulling a 6000 to 7000 dry weight TT and adding the 2500 or lbs. extra to keep me in the safe zone that I'm comfortable with. (Plus actual weight)

I gave up 6 feet of TT, I can still pull a 30 foot trailer, most likely 28'.

How does the BDS 4 inch handle, I'll never know.

Thanks to all, Thumbs up the NORTHGUY!!
 

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What the OP DID

So the 4 inch BDS kit was using Fox Shocks, That was my proposed setup on this truck to pull the TT. Now that I've went through some egg on face time over this deal I've surely learned a few things.

I decided to go to a 3.5 inch lift Ready Lift and use 295/70 or 75 tires. Using Bilstein shocks.
Why: Because, after the lesson I learned on the payloads etc. and then adding in the matching up of TT to hitch and keeping everything level. It was easier and less expensive and safer over all.

Cost: BDS kit was 2,550 plus install another 1,200.00 Plus I was going to have a issue lining up the truck hitch to the TT hitch.

3.5 inch kit was under a 1000,

Wheels, I decided to stay with my current factory 18 inch wheel and run the 35/1150's

I'm added a super spring to stop the sag.

I'm adding Super Stop brakes front and back again just for safety concerns of pulling TT.

Weight I'll be pulling now vs the original weight I wanted to to pull.

I was going to pull a 8,620 lb TT plus a 1,700 lb. Toy and another 800 to 1000 lbs. of the wife and I, tanks, generator, food, cloths WDS etc. (Plus actual weight)
Now it's turn to pulling a 6000 to 7000 dry weight TT and adding the 2500 or lbs. extra to keep me in the safe zone that I'm comfortable with. (Plus actual weight)

I gave up 6 feet of TT, I can still pull a 30 foot trailer, most likely 28'.

How does the BDS 4 inch handle, I'll never know.

Thanks to all, Thumbs up the NORTHGUY!!
Well practice some mitigation at the very least to build some muscle memory. If you get oscillations, grab that trailer brake controller slider to engage the trailer brake without braking the truck. This should be the type of thing you instinctually go to (grabbing the brake controller). There's about 50k towing accidents/yr, most of which are due to sway. They account for about 1% of traffic fatalities.

 
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1911falcon

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Well practice some mitigation at the very least to build some muscle memory. If you get oscillations, grab that trailer brake controller slider to engage the trailer brake without braking the truck. This should be the type of thing you instinctually go to (grabbing the brake controller). There's about 50k towing accidents/yr, most of which are due to sway. They account for about 1% of traffic fatalities.

Thanks again for the HO.
 

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Also while we're talking about towed weight distribution...

Ford F-150 I want too pull 10000 lb. Toy Hauler with 23 F-150 and 4 inch BDS Lift LOL mNLks9


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWd8ml9mFMo
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