Hybrid Shifting Clunkiness from Reviewers?

[DANNER]

I've read two reviews which mention some clunkiness with downshifts with the PowerBoost engine.

This Consumer Reports road test (subscription needed) says, "We weren’t thrilled with the hybrid’s occasional rough downshifts, though." and "Most shifts from the 10-speed automatic transmission are pretty smooth, though there are some occasional clunky downshifts, particularly when braking hard for a more sudden than expected stop. While overall this is a pretty seamless hybrid powertrain, there are times when the system’s transition from electric motor to gas engine can be felt and heard."

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ford/f-150/2021/road-test

In this Car Guru's vid (@ 7:14), the reviewer complains "There are some teething issues with this hybrid system...Get on the gas and the engine sometimes is not really smooth...When you're getting the engine back on there's some delay...some stutters...and this is really unacceptable for Ford because Ford has been making hybrids for the past decade plus. They really should know better and people who drive hybrids are not going to be paying for this science lab demonstration,"




I've never driven a hybrid so I don't have much experience either way and although I only test drove an F150 Powerboost for 15 minutes, it seems pretty smooth to me. I'm wondering whether owners with the PowerBoost engine have complaints?

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[F-150 Prius]

I think CR has gone to the dogs since they were taken over and fired their best people, but yes, the PowerBoost is not smooth. Rough shifts and lag in stop-n-go driving. I have a Feb build F-150 Hybrid and I recently drove a June build Hybrid – the newer (June) vehicle was noticeably better at stop-n-go through a stop sign. I didn't get enough miles to feel out how it downshifts. Also, my Feb truck is not bad, it's just not a finished product in terms of the transmission programming.
The only real "scandal" about the Hybrid is it never gets 24mpg and its mpg towing is terrible.
I think Ford should have put a 100hp motor and 30 kWh battery in it like their Lincoln branded product, but that would make the Lightning look like a second place finisher.
Still, I'm confident Ford will roll out updates and the transmission will be budda. : )

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

Ill be honest. Coming from driving multiple vehicles that made 500+ RWHP...

The Hybrid system produces 430HP and 575TQ, and does a wonderful job balancing the electric and motor, coupled through the 10 speed, and the 4WD/AWD system.

Big race car parts make big race car part noises. Has everyone forgot about that term blasted on the forms just 5-10 years ago? I remember the 03 Terminator clunk in the drivetrain with the alum driveshaft, but that was the only fix (its just going to make that clunk because it handles 600TQ and its a Tremec T56 and IRS assembly). The fix was always, its just going to do that because its rated for BIG HP numbers.

Make something shift 600TQ for 100,000 miles without a few clunks here and there, or show me something like it, and ill buy you a new F-150 Platinum.

Anything with 600TQ is going to jerk you around a little on the shifts. Come on folks, the truck is amazing and the reviews and critics are trolls. The truck will get 24PMG, and I've done it on many 1000 mile trips of alternating city and interstate traffic. It will not get 24 if you drive over 72PMH, so maybe that's their problem.

But to the last poster's point, I just got the Power-Up 1.6.0 update 2 days ago, and mine seems to drive slightly better, and maybe even gets better economy. Don't listen to the trolls, this is the best truck on the road, and the lightning will have to come a long way to beat this hybrid.

 

[scrming]

I’ve had my PowerBoost a couple weeks now and it’s been clunky at times but hasn’t bothered me. But yesterday after the update it was really clunky! Like wow is this thing going to come apart clunky! Hoping something got reset and the truck is relearning.

 

[Lippy]

I think mine is smoother after the update. I hope it’s not in my head.

 

[Whiskey]

My Hybrid is a couple months old now and I’ve learned that by placing the truck in ECHO mode tames down a bunch of issues (hard shifts, clunky noises, very touching throttle). Like one member posted, this truck is bad ass, so I don’t expect it to drive like Grandmas Toyota Corolla Hybrid. Far as fuel milage goes, I’ve tracked my MPG since day one….539.64 gallons of Regular fuel got me 11,995 miles, 22.227 MPG up the mountains pulling General 1000 4- seater, 80 miles per hour on freeways across the US once and I live at 6800 feet elevation soooo, I’m very pleased so far. Now if somehow we can get our country back to normal and people back to work maybe we can get our stuff serviced when required (nobody wants to work anymore).

 

[imnuts]

The only time I notice more harshness than normal is when the truck is in all electric, the gas engine kicks on, and it's also in between gears. Most of the time, it's perfectly fine, but certain situations it has a little bit of a clunk. It hasn't been anything horrible though IMO. Remember though that what one person thinks is smooth, another may think is unacceptable. It's a subjective thing.

 

[DANNER]

Well it's good to know that Ford can/will make updates after purchase. As mentioned, I test drove an F150 with PowerBoost a few weeks ago and was impressed with how smoothly it drove even trying to accelerate to reproduce this clunkiness.

Most reviews don't mention anything like this so, I suspect these reviewers either got a vehicle that was put together wrong or just didn't have up-to-date firmware.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's also possible for the transmission "learning" period end end up with a result that is different than it would be if it was repeated and you drive it differently than the first go around. I don't know by how much it can vary, but it supposedly has a fairly complex set of variables to work with.

As I stated earlier, you can hook up a light trailer and drive in Normal mode and the truck definitely behaves differently. I would love for my to shift in Normal mode exactly how it does with about 2000 lbs in tow. It was so much less indecisive.

 

[Tosh]

My Lariat was built in May. I have 2200 miles on it now, no trailering thus far. This truck's transmission is actually smoother than any other truck I've driven. I do feel the hybrid mechanism engaging but it's not a big deal.

All the other hybrid vehicles I've driven used CVT drivetrains so I don't have vast experience in this area, but I'm happy with my truck (especially in Sport Mode).

 

[F-150 Prius]

Ill be honest. Coming from driving multiple vehicles that made 500+ RWHP...

The Hybrid system produces 430HP and 575TQ, and does a wonderful job balancing the electric and motor, coupled through the 10 speed, and the 4WD/AWD system.

Big race car parts make big race car part noises. Has everyone forgot about that term blasted on the forms just 5-10 years ago? I remember the 03 Terminator clunk in the drivetrain with the alum driveshaft, but that was the only fix (its just going to make that clunk because it handles 600TQ and its a Tremec T56 and IRS assembly). The fix was always, its just going to do that because its rated for BIG HP numbers.

Make something shift 600TQ for 100,000 miles without a few clunks here and there, or show me something like it, and ill buy you a new F-150 Platinum.

Anything with 600TQ is going to jerk you around a little on the shifts. Come on folks, the truck is amazing and the reviews and critics are trolls. The truck will get 24PMG, and I've done it on many 1000 mile trips of alternating city and interstate traffic. It will not get 24 if you drive over 72PMH, so maybe that's their problem.

But to the last poster's point, I just got the Power-Up 1.6.0 update 2 days ago, and mine seems to drive slightly better, and maybe even gets better economy. Don't listen to the trolls, this is the best truck on the road, and the lightning will have to come a long way to beat this hybrid.

The question being some F-150 Hybrids are smoother than others and I think the problem is in downshifts as well as slow-n-go traffic – nowhere near peok power and torque.
I think until it's repeatable (and problematic) I'm not worrying about it.

I drove a June built Hybrid to compare to my Feb built one and the June was smoother in stop-start and (I think …) it didn't make any mistakes on downshifts (mine will bang a downshift under moderate acceleration or coasting, the June built one was "butter" on the downshifts.)

As for hp and torque, I've never made a wide open throttle run through the gears or a standing start wide open. I did a coupe of wide open runs up the on-ramp to a freeway before taking it in to the Ford dealer to have them look at the trans while they did a safety recall check that didn't turn out to be a problem on my truck. This was to see if I could get a repeatable scenario. The easiest case to repeat that I've found is 50 mph in 10th, then squeeze on it till it downshifts to 9th, then a little more throttle to make it downshift to 8th and that shift can be a hard hit … sometimes.

As for actual hp and tq, keep in mind most shifts are probably 3500 rpm +/- below 50% throttle, not wide open throttle at peak power (at the wheels, 405hp at 4500rpm) or peak torque (490lbft at 4300 ish.)

How do you get updates? I just see a notification of an update after it happens. The last one adding security alerts to the Fordpass app, which is good, but I haven't seen a "Power Up" update.

Also, I agree the Hybrid has set a high bar for the Lightning. If they unleashed the Hybrid and made it a plug-in with a 30-50kWh battery …. 100 mpge … 50 mile electric only range?

https://tfltruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021-ford-f-150-hybrid-5star-dyno-graph.jpg

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

Folks. Not trying to be that guy again, but when you have an electric motor which is capable of 200TQ instantly, the gear change grab is going to jerk you.

Not to mention if the engine is running too, which is probably another 50TQ.

If you want a smooth transmission, go get a truck with 300 max HP and a 4 speed OD automatic, and it will probably be a lot smoother.

10 years ago, people paid 400+ for a chip tune that firmed shift points so it would “lengthen the life of the tranny”.

Ford builds a truck with 600TQ that gets 24MPG, and can tow over 12,000 lbs, and runs the q mile faster than a Raptor, and everyone complains because it jerks your head a little whenthe tranny shifts from 2 - 3rd, because the engine/electric is already developing STUPID TQ at very low RPM, and everyone complains about it. Ford has literally done what everyone wanted them to do for 10+ years, and now everyone wants a truck that shifts like a 1990 model Town Car.

Reading 10 years of forums has only confirmed one thing. It doesn’t matter when the big name companies make or do, someone is going to complain about it.

BIG PARTS to Handle HP/TQ = big noises and jerks. Until OEM’s figure out how to please TROLLS, It’s the smoothest truck I have ever felt shift that’s came OEM with 575TQ and a warranty.

If you don’t believe me, Google the phrase “Big race car parts make big race car part noises”. Every vehicle I’ve ever been it with 600TQ shifted like a dragster on nearly every shift. Even moving through a parking lot at 5MPH, BAMMMM!!!!! There goes your coffee everywhere!

Especially the extra rotating mass from a blower spinning during the 1-2 shift on a modified or full manual valve body.

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

The question being some F-150 Hybrids are smoother than others and I think the problem is in downshifts as well as slow-n-go traffic – nowhere near peok power and torque.
I think until it's repeatable (and problematic) I'm not worrying about it.

I drove a June built Hybrid to compare to my Feb built one and the June was smoother in stop-start and (I think …) it didn't make any mistakes on downshifts (mine will bang a downshift under moderate acceleration or coasting, the June built one was "butter" on the downshifts.)

As for hp and torque, I've never made a wide open throttle run through the gears or a standing start wide open. I did a coupe of wide open runs up the on-ramp to a freeway before taking it in to the Ford dealer to have them look at the trans while they did a safety recall check that didn't turn out to be a problem on my truck. This was to see if I could get a repeatable scenario. The easiest case to repeat that I've found is 50 mph in 10th, then squeeze on it till it downshifts to 9th, then a little more throttle to make it downshift to 8th and that shift can be a hard hit … sometimes.

As for actual hp and tq, keep in mind most shifts are probably 3500 rpm +/- below 50% throttle, not wide open throttle at peak power (at the wheels, 405hp at 4500rpm) or peak torque (490lbft at 4300 ish.)

How do you get updates? I just see a notification of an update after it happens. The last one adding security alerts to the Fordpass app, which is good, but I haven't seen a "Power Up" update.

Also, I agree the Hybrid has set a high bar for the Lightning. If they unleashed the Hybrid and made it a plug-in with a 30-50kWh battery …. 100 mpge … 50 mile electric only range?

https://tfltruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021-ford-f-150-hybrid-5star-dyno-graph.jpg

Well I’ve watched many videos on the 10 speed. From what I understand, since the trans learns how you drive, you getting in a different truck, would net a different shift result because someone else was driving that truck.

IE: if I drive to get 24MPG for a long distance (few thousand miles) it will learn how to shift to maximize that current shift trend.

So, if I repeat the same thing, but throw economy out the window and run the heck out of it, it is going to lead to shift to address the driving fast trend.

I have seen where some dealers turned off the adaptive shift learning, and this along changed the entire way the truck shifted.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Well I’ve watched many videos on the 10 speed. From what I understand, since the trans learns how you drive, you getting in a different truck, would net a different shift result because someone else was driving that truck.

IE: if I drive to get 24MPG for a long distance (few thousand miles) it will learn how to shift to maximize that current shift trend.

So, if I repeat the same thing, but throw economy out the window and run the heck out of it, it is going to lead to shift to address the driving fast trend.

I have seen where some dealers turned off the adaptive shift learning, and this along changed the entire way the truck shifted.

The other truck, built in June, had 20 miles on it. I'm sure software plays a part, but I wonder if there's also a build quality issue. It takes a while for a carmaker to get enough units in the field for the statistics to take shape, for the defect to be identified, for a field repair to be designed, then they issue a service bulletin and hopefully it's a simple fix, a defective OEM part that's not working to spec.
The Hybrid is certainly changing itself. I drove mine on the freeway for the first time in a few weeks and it sat on 75 mpg and averaged 22 mpg for a familiar trip 2 hour trip involving some idling to keep the AC on (dog) and some city traffic. I can't recall it being above 20 on that particular trip. Same 87 gas. Software upgrades? 6700 miles, who knows; maybe the engine is still running in?

 

[rca]

I've had my PB since March and it definitely has some clunkiness. Mainly I notice it when taking off from a stop and it will shift from 1 straight to 3. Otherwise it feels great.

Mine does have an issue with the electric motor that is going to have to be replaced, so I might have other issues. Waiting on parts, for the second time, from Ford. It threw a CEL a month ago and when I had the dealer check they said the electric motor needed to be replaced. The CEL had cleared itself by that point and they said it was safe to drive. Apparently it might be a problem under full throttle, so I'm staying off the gas. Parts are constrained and the wrong part was in the box the first time they got it in. Happened to a PB once before at the dealer with the same issue, wrong part in the right box from Ford.

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