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How Would You Feel if Ford Pulled a Dodge and Produced Last Model Along Current Mod?

WhiteLightningnshitshadow

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I really thought the Ram Classic was stupid. I hated the last iteration of the 1500 and was blown away at the decision to keep it. That said, there's definitely a play to be made that actually makes a lot of sense.

How would everyone feel if Ford continued making the XL trim trucks from the previous years alongside the current lineup of F150s for a period of 2-3 years at something like 5k-10k off MSRP AND through direct sales only to maintain profitability? Throwing one engine/trans in with only a few color options and only SCAB or SCREW would be good limitations. I get that the margins aren't high to begin with on XLs. There's clearly a market gap for cheaper trucks. Ram is doing a good (and the only) job of exploiting this.

I would hope that the previous gens get any kind of reliability improvements that are economical and associated with the current gens.
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eharri3

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I believe Ford did this in 04 for a year or two and called it the F150 Heritage. 97-03 bodystyle sold alongside the redesigned 04. I think when you have a particularly radical redesign like the 04 F150 or the 5th Gen Ram it may make some business sense to keep blowing the old bodystyle out the door for a couple years for people who prefer to snap it up for a deal.

For whatever reason Ford did not see good reason to do this with the 13Gen. The 2024 redesign is supposed to be more cosmetic with basically the same structure underneath so even less likely there. Perhaps they'll entertain that option a few years after that when they do something from the ground up again. I don't know how it works exactly. But I'd have to imagine if you are keeping some tooling and capacity set aside for the old body style there's a cost for that and you' have to be really confident there will be a strong demand from a portion of the customer base not ready for the new body style.

Probably doesn't make much sense to do except for when customers perceive a radical departure from the norm.
 
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bfastr

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Interesting point, I didnt even know Ram was doing that. But it does seem like a smart move.
I am no marketing expert, although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently.
BUT, having grown up when pickups were work vehicles and treated as such I certainly dont see many bare bones trucks on the road anymore. I say this while driving a King Ranch thats really a luxury car masquerading as a truck. I grew up in C10's when we beat the crap out of them and drove them until they died. never once washed or waxed them. bed liners or Line X werent even thought of yet.

anyway. It seems to me that Ford/Chevy et al have bumped up the dimensions on the small truck segment, Rangers, Colorados and such to fill the cost gap for a less expensive but almost full size truck. The Ranger is almost as big as old F-150s now.

I am sure that somewhere in the fleet sales you can order a stripped XL in bare bones work config. but I doubt you would ever see one just sitting on a lot. probably depends on where you are in the country.

I think if I needed a farm truck I would really prefer one that is so plain there are no ( or very few ) computers controlling everything, maybe even crank windows. but I doubt we will ever go that far back.
 
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WhiteLightningnshitshadow

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Interesting point, I didnt even know Ram was doing that. But it does seem like a smart move.
I am no marketing expert, although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently.
BUT, having grown up when pickups were work vehicles and treated as such I certainly dont see many bare bones trucks on the road anymore. I say this while driving a King Ranch thats really a luxury car masquerading as a truck. I grew up in C10's when we beat the crap out of them and drove them until they died. never once washed or waxed them. bed liners or Line X werent even thought of yet.

anyway. It seems to me that Ford/Chevy et al have bumped up the dimensions on the small truck segment, Rangers, Colorados and such to fill the cost gap for a less expensive but almost full size truck. The Ranger is almost as big as old F-150s now.

I am sure that somewhere in the fleet sales you can order a stripped XL in bare bones work config. but I doubt you would ever see one just sitting on a lot. probably depends on where you are in the country.

I think if I needed a farm truck I would really prefer one that is so plain there are no ( or very few ) computers controlling everything, maybe even crank windows. but I doubt we will ever go that far back.
Yeah but the problem is these small trucks just aren't that much cheaper, and are MUCH less capable. If anything, I would almost say nix the Ranger, keep the maverick, and throw last year's XL F150 a price cut. The ranger and maverick are almost too close to the point where updating the maverick a tiny bit could easily cover the gap.
 

eharri3

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Not everybody exhausts a pickup's capabilities. Some people just tow a utility trailer for a landscaping business while hauling a crew or run car parts back and fourth. If you're not maxing out on payload or towing, the CC Ranger XL comes in nearly 10K under the base Screw F150 and is a viable option. Maverick XL starts at about 25K.

RAM doesn't have any smaller options until the Dakota comes back. I would not be surprised if the Ram Classic disappears when the Dakota comes back to provide a deep sub 40K option and the next Gen Hurricane V6 Ram starts to materialize.
 
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The Ram Classic is popular in the fleet vehicle world which is probably one reason.
 

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Yeah but the problem is these small trucks just aren't that much cheaper, and are MUCH less capable. If anything, I would almost say nix the Ranger, keep the maverick, and throw last year's XL F150 a price cut. The ranger and maverick are almost too close to the point where updating the maverick a tiny bit could easily cover the gap.
You really should go drive the two of them. Maverick and ranger aren't even in the same ball park. With the ranger and F150 both growing in capabilities, the ranger starts to look like a bit of a bastard child. The maverick is a front wheel drive monocoque SUV with a bed in place of the rear hatch area. That said however I'd bet the maverick meets the needs of most of the 'small truck' buyer requirements.

The creep between 'trucks' has been such that the industry keeps trying to push higher models with steeper price tags. Take for instance payload. There's no reasonable excuse for not having the ranger and F150 even in the highest trims to not be able to option a 3klb payload (with max GVWR < 8500lbs). They instead want you to shell out another $15-20k for a 250 that's larger and doesn't make sense.
 
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WhiteLightningnshitshadow

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You really should go drive the two of them. Maverick and ranger aren't even in the same ball park. With the ranger and F150 both growing in capabilities, the ranger starts to look like a bit of a bastard child. The maverick is a front wheel drive monocoque SUV with a bed in place of the rear hatch area. That said however I'd bet the maverick meets the needs of most of the 'small truck' buyer requirements.

The creep between 'trucks' has been such that the industry keeps trying to push higher models with steeper price tags. Take for instance payload. There's no reasonable excuse for not having the ranger and F150 even in the highest trims to not be able to option a 3klb payload (with max GVWR < 8500lbs). They instead want you to shell out another $15-20k for a 250 that's larger and doesn't make sense.
I get what you're saying, but I really think the poorly named maverick could be pumped up enough to fill ranger shoes. The 3k payload I kinda agree with on the F150, but I'm not sure what that would really look like. I really think the 8.8 could handle more than Ford let's on, but that soft suspension is way too light for the sake of weight reduction. Not sure how underguned the regular HD frame is. The F250s dont seem much more expensive (if any) than F150s. I was seeing XLTs for both in that 55k ballpark.
 

Mtnman1

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I really thought the Ram Classic was stupid. I hated the last iteration of the 1500 and was blown away at the decision to keep it. That said, there's definitely a play to be made that actually makes a lot of sense.

How would everyone feel if Ford continued making the XL trim trucks from the previous years alongside the current lineup of F150s for a period of 2-3 years at something like 5k-10k off MSRP AND through direct sales only to maintain profitability? Throwing one engine/trans in with only a few color options and only SCAB or SCREW would be good limitations. I get that the margins aren't high to begin with on XLs. There's clearly a market gap for cheaper trucks. Ram is doing a good (and the only) job of exploiting this.

I would hope that the previous gens get any kind of reliability improvements that are economical and associated with the current gens.
Nope. No reg cabs? Dumb.
 

Graygoose2021

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Ive had 3 Rams, and first thought the 4th Gen continuing was crazy....but last I did a 2019 Classic. Was still a Bighorn, before they started to cheapen them up even more, aka Tradesman, etc
I think the 4th Gen F150 has good revisions and upgrades over the 2020 XL. Buddy has one. But they need to continue the RCSB, 5.0....dealers cant seem to keep them for long.
 

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STM

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You really should go drive the two of them. Maverick and ranger aren't even in the same ball park. With the ranger and F150 both growing in capabilities, the ranger starts to look like a bit of a bastard child. The maverick is a front wheel drive monocoque SUV with a bed in place of the rear hatch area. That said however I'd bet the maverick meets the needs of most of the 'small truck' buyer requirements.

The creep between 'trucks' has been such that the industry keeps trying to push higher models with steeper price tags. Take for instance payload. There's no reasonable excuse for not having the ranger and F150 even in the highest trims to not be able to option a 3klb payload (with max GVWR < 8500lbs). They instead want you to shell out another $15-20k for a 250 that's larger and doesn't make sense.
Perhaps ride quality is the chief consideration in not specifying higher loads on the f150?

The f150 rides as well or better than most SUVs on the market and we all love how it rides! 😊
 
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WhiteLightningnshitshadow

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Perhaps ride quality is the chief consideration in not specifying higher loads on the f150?

The f150 rides as well or better than most SUVs on the market and we all love how it rides! 😊
that's kinda my theory. I really think most f150s with the single leaf and bs composite spring are way undersprung both for ride quality and weight savings purposes. Adding airbags might be the single best thing to do to get a few hundred extra pounds in. I really think the typically equipped HD frame and 8.8 can handle it. Just don't drive like a dumbass when under some significant weight and it'll turn out fine with a little bit of extra margins from the airbags.
 

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The Ram Classic is popular in the fleet vehicle world which is probably one reason.
Probably the only reason. Ram also has said on more than one occasion that this is "the last year" of the classic, but apparently their fleet sales on it are good enough to continue it. It is not $10k less than their current gen though.

If Ford did this on the fleet side I would be all over it. We used to purchase SuperCrew XLTs with the 3.5 as our fleet vehicles. Since Covid, Ford has done away with CPAs for almost everyone but gov agencies, so fleet pricing (Ford Pro) is solely based off of negotiations with your dealership, and given tight inventory over the past few years, that has meant even downgrading to an XL STX our per vehicle cost went up 40%. We switched to Ram to offset some of that increase. If Ford were to offer something more competitive in price we would switch back.
 
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WhiteLightningnshitshadow

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Probably the only reason. Ram also has said on more than one occasion that this is "the last year" of the classic, but apparently their fleet sales on it are good enough to continue it. It is not $10k less than their current gen though.

If Ford did this on the fleet side I would be all over it. We used to purchase SuperCrew XLTs with the 3.5 as our fleet vehicles. Since Covid, Ford has done away with CPAs for almost everyone but gov agencies, so fleet pricing (Ford Pro) is solely based off of negotiations with your dealership, and given tight inventory over the past few years, that has meant even downgrading to an XL STX our per vehicle cost went up 40%. We switched to Ram to offset some of that increase. If Ford were to offer something more competitive in price we would switch back.
Yeah I feel like of the trucks, Fords street pricing jumped the most. People were still getting Ram Rebels 10k off MSRP in 2021 and it really seems like they are the trucks with the steepest discounts and negotiations. I thought I saw like an 8k difference in msrps between the classic and newer body, but I very much doubt people aren't able to negotiation those nasty classics to mid 30s.

Some shit dealers weren't honoring Xplan for a little while there. Some of this is dealers.
 

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I owned a 22 Maverick for almost a year, it was the 2.0T XLT AWD. I put 44k miles on it before I killed Bambi. It would easily be a Ranger replacement if it had a full frame underneath rather than being on the Escape platform. The 2.0 EB had more than enough power when fully loaded with 1400-1500lbs in the bed. The payload capacity on mine (1486 lbs) was higher than a loaded up Raptor. I’d still rather have that weight in a Raptor even if it is overloaded

The Ranger is already behind the Tacoma Colorado/Canyon and the new Frontier in terms of sales volume (obviously the Ranger is an outgoing model), but the Maverick already outperforms the Ranger in sales volume (again, many factors at play here). There’s demand for something that is small but capable, which if it had a full frame I think the Maverick would have made a good Ranger since it’s more inline with the size they used to be

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those 😁

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