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How do you plan on charging your lightning

How do you plan on charging your lightning


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TaxmanHog

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Ford Pro that comes with the truck, mounted in our garage.

When traveling to the race track with bike in trailer, I expect to stop at least once at a DCFC to top off the battery so that I can make it home, not sure if it will be a morning or afternoon stop.
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I have a 50 amp plug next to the house for my brother’s camper when he comes to visit, so I’ll start with that. I’m interested in adding solar at home and intend on adding a 60 amp circuit to my garage for the truck. I will be adding chargers at both offices, too. I’ll charge daily at the offices and shouldn’t need to do as much at home.
 

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Roof top solar mostly, ours is tied to the grid, it's powering my bitcoin miners right now and what they don't use goes against the power company bill.

My commute is only 3.4 miles round trip so I'll essentially be driving it for free other than the note and insurance that is. Our electric rate is $0.10/kWh so even without solar it won't cost more than a few dollars a month to drive.
 

PungoteagueDave

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I've got nearly 50kW of solar panels that generates an average of ~125kWh/day.

I'll feed that into the truck and with the Ford Pro Charger I'll be able to run indefinitely.
Technically, no one charges with solar unless you are off-grid. I have a 32 kW system with five inverters, and a TED energy monitoring system that watches 64 usage and generation circuits at our aquaculture farm. We produce more than we use on net basis across the year, and make about $16k annually selling SREC credits, plus about $4k of positive electricity sales. Even though we have no electric bill and sell excess power to the grid, it still is not correct to say that we charge with our panels. EV driving and solar panels are two completely separate and unrelated decisions, both technically and economically.

When we charge our EV's even on a sunny day when our panels are kicking energy back to the grid above and beyond our charging an dother local needs, the fact remains that when we plug in our EV, a grid leveling generator somewhere must be fired up that much harder and burn that much more fossil fuel. Someday the grid may have sufficient industrial battery capacity at the utility level to do grid demand leveling using green energy, but for now, that is not the case - every time we charge, we burn fuel somewhere. Put another way, the opportunity cost of charging is the energy that we would otherwise have sold back to the grid. When we plug in, that energy isn't sold back, and the grid must generate that energy another way, or work that much harder, burn that much more fuel.

I find it humorous and a bit misinformed, or if not misinformed, then disingenuous when EV drivers claim that they drive with solar electricity. To promote honest conversation about the technical and economic realities of solar and EV driving, I have had a small "Coal Powered" sticker on my Teslas. Because even though, like so many EV drivers with solar panels, I could claim that I drive for "free" and charge with solar, I refuse to lie to the uninformed folks who get their information from already-suspicious or specious sources. It is better to let them experience the reality of a Tesla test drive, and explain the economics of solar power, and why they can both be great things, but that they are completely unrelated.

I know it can be a nice feel-good to be sanctimonious about a green lifestyle, and do admit to being formerly guilty of chortling about our LEED-certified property and negative-carbon organic oyster farm, but it is better to be honest about how this stuff works in the real world. You ain't charging your car with solar panels (unless you are off grid). Our original 84-panel setup is on our barn and I recently added another 40 panels on articulating poles. Pics below.

Ford F-150 Lightning How do you plan on charging your lightning 99FB9A89-47AC-4DAF-9A0A-487CD104F890


Ford F-150 Lightning How do you plan on charging your lightning 6DB18131-F20D-4FD7-901C-355ABABDF92B


Ford F-150 Lightning How do you plan on charging your lightning 72C7E628-0208-4C5E-A709-8A36935D85A3
 

Oneand0

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Technically, no one charges with solar unless you are off-grid. I have a 32 kW system with five inverters, and a TED energy monitoring system that watches 64 usage and generation circuits at our aquaculture farm. We produce more than we use on net basis across the year, and make about $16k annually selling SREC credits, plus about $4k of positive electricity sales. Even though we have no electric bill and sell excess power to the grid, it still is not correct to say that we charge with our panels. EV driving and solar panels are two completely separate and unrelated decisions, both technically and economically.

When we charge our EV's even on a sunny day when our panels are kicking energy back to the grid above and beyond our charging an dother local needs, the fact remains that when we plug in our EV, a grid leveling generator somewhere must be fired up that much harder and burn that much more fossil fuel. Someday the grid may have sufficient industrial battery capacity at the utility level to do grid demand leveling using green energy, but for now, that is not the case - every time we charge, we burn fuel somewhere. Put another way, the opportunity cost of charging is the energy that we would otherwise have sold back to the grid. When we plug in, that energy isn't sold back, and the grid must generate that energy another way, or work that much harder, burn that much more fuel.

I find it humorous and a bit misinformed, or if not misinformed, then disingenuous when EV drivers claim that they drive with solar electricity. To promote honest conversation about the technical and economic realities of solar and EV driving, I have had a small "Coal Powered" sticker on my Teslas. Because even though, like so many EV drivers with solar panels, I could claim that I drive for "free" and charge with solar, I refuse to lie to the uninformed folks who get their information from already-suspicious or specious sources. It is better to let them experience the reality of a Tesla test drive, and explain the economics of solar power, and why they can both be great things, but that they are completely unrelated.

I know it can be a nice feel-good to be sanctimonious about a green lifestyle, and do admit to being formerly guilty of chortling about our LEED-certified property and negative-carbon organic oyster farm, but it is better to be honest about how this stuff works in the real world. You ain't charging your car with solar panels (unless you are off grid). Our original 84-panel setup is on our barn and I recently added another 40 panels on articulating poles. Pics below.

99FB9A89-47AC-4DAF-9A0A-487CD104F890.jpeg


6DB18131-F20D-4FD7-901C-355ABABDF92B.jpeg


72C7E628-0208-4C5E-A709-8A36935D85A3.jpeg
I hear you! That’s why I’m determined to put panels on my home and not tie them to the grid, for the sole purpose of gradual level 2 charging my Lightning at home over the course of a few days. Of course , when I’m on longer trips, I will use level 3 on the road a couple times a month, but for everything else it will be off grid. My electric bill is only $65 or $75 a month tops and I don’t need solar for that. I would rather use the panels in my instance, and have a true source that isn’t tied to the grid for daily use and emergency use. This guy inspired me.


Im not sure if I will use the Sunrun intelligence backup, or just feed the 30amp from the back of the truck to a transfer switch for feeding the house in an emergency.
 

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GDN

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99% of my charging will be at home. I've got access to free charging at work (4 hour increments), but even with 12 chargers across our work campus there is usually a waitlist. The last 3.5 years I've never used them with the Model 3. However with the truck taking a lot more juice to run, I may try charging some at work on my occasional trip into the office. Typically having to move the vehicle after 4 hours is not worth 4 hours of L2 juice.

On occasion I'll have to seek out DCFC from DFW to central OK to see family (200 mile trip). It looks like Frances Energy has done a decent job of covering the Oklahoma. They are horrible at communication and their web site however. It's confusing and hard to know if you only get 50kW or 150kW from their chargers. Once at my destination I have access to 14-50 plugs and can charge overnight once again.
 

PungoteagueDave

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I hear you! That’s why I’m determined to put panels on my home and not tie them to the grid, for the sole purpose of gradual level 2 charging my Lightning at home over the course of a few days. Of course , when I’m on longer trips, I will use level 3 on the road a couple times a month, but for everything else it will be off grid. My electric bill is only $65 or $75 a month tops and I don’t need solar for that. I would rather use the panels in my instance, and have a true source that isn’t tied to the grid for daily use and emergency use. This guy inspired me.


Im not sure if I will use the Sunrun intelligence backup, or just feed the 30amp from the back of the truck to a transfer switch for feeding the house in an emergency.
That's great, but seems a bit economically limiting - I thought about replacing my 55kwh propane backup generator with batteries and disconnecting from the grid, but then would lose all the net metering benefits. You will never have those if you don't connect in. If you connect, then you can sell your Renewable Energy Credits, which are crazy remunerative - ours vary through the year, but we report metered production to the broker monthly, and the last four checks (actual cash) from our 32 kwh system were: $3,711 (May 2021), $4,200 (Aug 2021), $4,025 (Nov 2021) and $3,415 (Feb 2022), or $15, 351 in actual cash payments for just renewable energy credit sales. Why would you give those away or not claim them? There are other benefits for grid-connecting on a net metered basis, and IMO there is no reason to not do so if you are in a location that has grid power availability. In our case, the roughly $4k of power that we sell back to the grid is added gravy. Given that we are a farm and had some grants to do the initial 84-panel installation, the payback period was well under three years, and we now power everything for "free" thanks to the national policymakers and taxpayer largesses - an Obama-era green-tech success! All run by automation systems in Leed-certified buildings for which there were even more tax credits and incentives! Pay people to do a thing and they will do that thing...

I would think hard in your case about the cost of being self-contained vs being grid-connected. A lot depends on locale and net-metering regulations, but at least in Virginia, it would make no sense to disconnect from the grid.
 

williams

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i have home tesla solar already with 2 power walls. I produce 60-80kw a day and home uses avg 50 per day so i have plenty to left over. i got the system when i had my model y and still had a net zero power bill, i expect the same with the lightning if i ever get one.
 

PungoteagueDave

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i have home tesla solar already with 2 power walls. I produce 60-80kw a day and home uses avg 50 per day so i have plenty to left over. i got the system when i had my model y and still had a net zero power bill, i expect the same with the lightning if i ever get one.
Do you sell your SRECs? I find that a huge number of solar panel owners have no idea this is available and is relatively easy to get set up. It is separate from and unrelated to net metering.
 

jefro

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You can stop at the casinos in OK and charge. :)
 

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Oneand0

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That's great, but seems a bit economically limiting - I thought about replacing my 55kwh propane backup generator with batteries and disconnecting from the grid, but then would lose all the net metering benefits. You will never have those if you don't connect in. If you connect, then you can sell your Renewable Energy Credits, which are crazy remunerative - ours vary through the year, but we report metered production to the broker monthly, and the last four checks (actual cash) from our 32 kwh system were: $3,711 (May 2021), $4,200 (Aug 2021), $4,025 (Nov 2021) and $3,415 (Feb 2022), or $15, 351 in actual cash payments for just renewable energy credit sales. Why would you give those away or not claim them? There are other benefits for grid-connecting on a net metered basis, and IMO there is no reason to not do so if you are in a location that has grid power availability. In our case, the roughly $4k of power that we sell back to the grid is added gravy. Given that we are a farm and had some grants to do the initial 84-panel installation, the payback period was well under three years, and we now power everything for "free" thanks to the national policymakers and taxpayer largesses - an Obama-era green-tech success! All run by automation systems in Leed-certified buildings for which there were even more tax credits and incentives! Pay people to do a thing and they will do that thing...

I would think hard in your case about the cost of being self-contained vs being grid-connected. A lot depends on locale and net-metering regulations, but at least in Virginia, it would make no sense to disconnect from the grid.
I envy all of you who make money on your solar. I’m not giving up much money by not net metering in the future. In fact my electric bill is only $65 to $75 a month. As far as making money off solar where I live, my property has so many pine trees on it, I still have shadows on my roof today from pine trees. The only spot that has sun right now is behind my car in this pic. I’m planning a solar car port with about 5k to 6k panels in the spot behind my vehicle. It’s the only sunny spot without shadows. Just enough to power what I need in an emergency and that’s why I’m not going to tie it up on the grid. Not worth it to me to save $50-70 a month. If I had enough sunny space not shadowed by pines I would definitely like to make money off it like you and others do. But not realistic on my property. It’s more important for me to have a true back up.

Ford F-150 Lightning How do you plan on charging your lightning 0F9EBE00-8D0B-4D6D-AC4A-98694D264EB9
 

PungoteagueDave

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I envy all of you who make money on your solar. I’m not giving up much money by not net metering in the future. In fact my electric bill is only $65 to $75 a month. As far as making money off solar where I live, my property has so many pine trees on it, I still have shadows on my roof today from pine trees. The only spot that has sun right now is behind my car in this pic. I’m planning a solar car port with about 5k to 6k panels in the spot behind my vehicle. It’s the only sunny spot without shadows. Just enough to power what I need in an emergency and that’s why I’m not going to tie it up on the grid. Not worth it to me to save $50-70 a month. If I had enough sunny space not shadowed by pines I would definitely like to make money off it like you and others do. But not realistic on my property. It’s more important for me to have a true back up.

0F9EBE00-8D0B-4D6D-AC4A-98694D264EB9.jpeg
You make an excellent point. Many people try to "force" solar because they want it for reasons other than the true numbers. Emotional and green objectives aside, half the homes in the U.S. have improperly oriented roofs for solar (east/west, or northerly exposures), or are shaded part of the day. An honest solar installer will survey and tell you what your yield will be, and refuse to install panels in low-yield locations. However, many salespeople will cover a roof that has zero chance of payback, and impair a home's value with a long-term obligation with upside-down yield numbers. The whole panel leasing game is beyond sleazy, it destroys real estate values in more than half of cases. I'm funding a small business to help people get out of their solar contracts, similar to the business that help people break their timeshare real estate obligations.
 

PungoteagueDave

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Dave

The only point of contention here is that you are placing money as the ultimate object in deciding the value or worth of solar in those situations. In my opinion I would ban any land clearing for solar until every building and house had solar panels on it. It's not really a value of money for the deciding factor, but the advantage that solar would provide every household and relief on the power grid as the primary factors. Self reliance is a really big factor for me personally and so for me to be able to control my own destiny with electricity is huge. For people who worry about monetary issues, this helps that in the short and long term. For those who value green options as the best, this also helps much more than trying to force people to switch off ICE vehicles. For that reason every household should have things like a small chicken coop, solar panel with small battery bank set, fridge, stove, laundry etc, just so you understand how I place hold these types of things.
You ignore the fact that fewer than half of the single family homes in the U.S qualify for solar panel installation. I've installed them on many properties as a shopping center owner, have allowed them elsewhere on request, and have put them on three of my personal homes. Roof orientation is a serious issue, and a good installer will refuse to do so on an east-west oriented roof, and a northern orientation is a total non starter. Shaded roofs are also out. There are some excellent installer tools to determine if a roof qualifies. Fewer than half of all roofs have the correct (southern or mostly southern) orientation. One of my homes had the correct orientation, but was partially shaded for half the day, so only 30% of the southern-facing 50% of the overall roof roof qualified for panels. We did that much, but it handles ony 25% of our needs.

At our farm (pictures above), I specifically built the barn with a southern-facing roof half and the correct tilt for optimal year-round solar gain for the first 84 panels, but did even better with the next round of 40 panels on articulating poles that I reorient four times per year to change the angle to the sun. Puttin panels, for example, on the OTHER side of that barn roof would be stupid, even though it is a big surface facing the sky. However, the further north you go, the sillier solar becomes. Seattle and Maine get two hours less sunlight in December than Miami, just when the power is needed most, so solar is dubious there. Go any further north and the numbers just don't work.
 

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Dave

The only point of contention here is that you are placing money as the ultimate object in deciding the value or worth of solar in those situations. In my opinion I would ban any land clearing for solar until every building and house had solar panels on it. It's not really a value of money for the deciding factor, but the advantage that solar would provide every household and relief on the power grid as the primary factors. Self reliance is a really big factor for me personally and so for me to be able to control my own destiny with electricity is huge. For people who worry about monetary issues, this helps that in the short and long term. For those who value green options as the best, this also helps much more than trying to force people to switch off ICE vehicles. For that reason every household should have things like a small chicken coop, solar panel with small battery bank set, fridge, stove, laundry etc, just so you understand how I place hold these types of things.
He’s not talking about those seeking self-reliance. He’s going after unscrupulous solar peddlers who lie about the payback and con unsuspecting consumers into contracts that cost them dearly.
I had a conversation the other day with a guy who works for a utility. He told me that they have solar companies trying to prepay customers’ utility bills for several months so they get the illusion that they are saving money. I’m not anti-solar, but like every industry, there are crooks that need to be reined in.
 

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You ignore the fact that fewer than half of the single family homes in the U.S qualify for solar panel installation. I've installed them on many properties as a shopping center owner, have allowed them elsewhere on request, and have put them on three of my personal homes. Roof orientation is a serious issue, and a good installer will refuse to do so on an east-west oriented roof, and a northern orientation is a total non starter. Shaded roofs are also out. There are some excellent installer tools to determine if a roof qualifies. Fewer than half of all roofs have the correct (southern or mostly southern) orientation. One of my homes had the correct orientation, but was partially shaded for half the day, so only 30% of the southern-facing 50% of the overall roof roof qualified for panels. We did that much, but it handles ony 25% of our needs.

At our farm (pictures above), I specifically built the barn with a southern-facing roof half and the correct tilt for optimal year-round solar gain for the first 84 panels, but did even better with the next round of 40 panels on articulating poles that I reorient four times per year to change the angle to the sun. Puttin panels, for example, on the OTHER side of that barn roof would be stupid, even though it is a big surface facing the sky. However, the further north you go, the sillier solar becomes. Seattle and Maine get two hours less sunlight in December than Miami, just when the power is needed most, so solar is dubious there. Go any further north and the numbers just don't work.
A lot of the companies selling solar panels really stretch the numbers to convince the customer solar makes sense. You're so right that less than half the homes have a roof suited for solar. From all the data I've seen, your setup to change the orientation (or have a single or dual axis tracker) really increases the value.

I just saw this week a new solar installation with panels on the North side of the roof. Someone got taken to the cleaners. I hate seeing this, as it's such a waste of solar panels that could be setup correct and pumping out electricity.
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