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TexasTruck

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I don’t think there are physical temperature sensors for the cats. Based on what I’ve read, it’s calculated based on an algorithm that’s apparently accurate on stock vehicles. Who knows how the Roush, Whipple or FP tune would affect that.

I use a Banks iDash to monitor the virtual cat temps and they quickly go above 1600 degrees, the point at which COT would start working. This happens on WOT pulls longer than about 3-4 seconds. I’ve read elsewhere that complete meltdown wont occur until 1900+, but I assume sustained temps of 1600+ aren’t awesome. I have an alarm set for 1700 or 1725, I can’t remember, to let me know I need to get out of it. I also have an alarm set for 12+ PSI of boost.

Seems like the guys on the FB pages that lose motors go through the same scenario:

They get a P0430 and then a P0300, figure it’s plugs or an anomaly, swap the plugs and/or clear the code and they keep driving. The cats are already damaged at this point and causes a runaway effect. Blocked exhaust >> high pressures/piston damage >> more misfires >> further cat damage

The moment I see a P0430 or P0300 code, AAA is getting called and my truck will be on a flatbed headed to the dealer. Seems like guys that catch it before the P0430/P0300 show up together end up being okay.
That is very helpful information! Thank you!
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SJG

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I don't have my truck yet, but I've been wondering about the factory cats so I reached out to Whipple and Roush with a few questions.

I got a response from Whipple and had a nice email chat with them, but Roush has yet to even reply back at all.

Like was mentioned, Whipple has all the safety checks in place with their tune, but Whipple mentioned that the most common cause is from misfires from mechanical issues with wrong spark plugs improperly gapped being the biggest cause. They recommend iridium plugs gapped at .028.

My main question to them was what if I replaced the factory cats with an SPD catted down-pipe set up with GESi cats to 'possibly' avoid the cat issue.
Their answer was essentially that installing the cats wouldn't void the 3yr/36000 warranty and they require no additional tuning, but if the Aftermarket cats fail and cause engine or super-charger damage, the warranty won't cover anything.

This is the expensive route I'm thinking about taking, since I asked to have the Whipple kit installed when the truck arrives.
I talked with Whipple a few weeks ago to see if their 21-23 kits were compatible with 24s. Was told they were not and they were working on it. According to them it will be a different part number when available. Maybe new BCM and harness has something to do with it. No ETA availabl…
 

TexasTruck

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Absolute pressure is the sum of gauge pressure and atmospheric pressure

so you need to subtract 14.7 from what you are seeing.
Why 14.7?

So here’s the MAP showing 10.04 at idle. So that’s really -4.66. Meaning the blower is negative boost which means it’s likely bypassing boost since it’s always pumping air?
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On order ‘22 RCSB.
at idle you want to be at vacuum.
14.7 is atmospheric pressure at sea level. it’s a rule of thumb.

however…that is showing inches mercury for your map. i don’t remember what that converts to in psi off the top of my head.
 

Slyder

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I don't have my truck yet, but I've been wondering about the factory cats so I reached out to Whipple and Roush with a few questions.

I got a response from Whipple and had a nice email chat with them, but Roush has yet to even reply back at all.

Like was mentioned, Whipple has all the safety checks in place with their tune, but Whipple mentioned that the most common cause is from misfires from mechanical issues with wrong spark plugs improperly gapped being the biggest cause. They recommend iridium plugs gapped at .028.

My main question to them was what if I replaced the factory cats with an SPD catted down-pipe set up with GESi cats to 'possibly' avoid the cat issue.
Their answer was essentially that installing the cats wouldn't void the 3yr/36000 warranty and they require no additional tuning, but if the Aftermarket cats fail and cause engine or super-charger damage, the warranty won't cover anything.

This is the expensive route I'm thinking about taking, since I asked to have the Whipple kit installed when the truck arrives.
Quoting my previous post as a reference.

I finally got a reply from Roush today and they straight up said that installing Aftermarket cats will void their 3yr/ 36000 mile warranty, even if doing so wasn't the cause for super-charger or engine damage.
 

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Davidwnuc

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On order ‘22 RCSB.
10312 miles.
only 93 octane. 90% of the time top tier. no additives. stock roush tune. muffler swapped with a Dynomax straight through factory exit location.
made a 3 hour round trip for work yesterday mostly highway/interstate.
made two 0-60 pulls with a 10 minute cruise at 50 mph in between during that trip. drove normal 18 mile trip to work on city streets this morning.
got in the truck to leave work this afternoon and within a mile the check engine light came on. P0430
Drove straight to dealership. same one that i bought the truck from and who installed the roush kit.
they gave me a loaner and said it would be 3-5 days.
The guy knew what the code was when i told him but said that he hasn’t seen a new truck come in with cat issues.
they install and sell a lot of whipple/roush trucks.
 

TexasTruck

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got in the truck to leave work this afternoon and within a mile the check engine light came on. P0430
Drove straight to dealership. same one that i bought the truck from and who installed the roush kit.
they gave me a loaner and said it would be 3-5 days.
The one key thing here is you stopped and went straight to the dealer. That goes back to all the other SC vehicles not knowing what the owner did before or after the issue occurs. Did they clear codes and continue racing around or stop, limp home or a dealership. I get it if you're out in BFE and no cell service and you have to drive it.

That's great the dealership has your back. How does the Whipple/Roush warrantee play in this scenario?
The guy knew what the code was when i told him but said that he hasn’t seen a new truck come in with cat issues.
they install and sell a lot of whipple/roush trucks.
In general or SC trucks? I've only read a handful of CAT issues on SC 5.0 in F-150's and Mustangs. I certainly went into this thinking I'm safe from harm, long distance road trips, moderate towing, daily driver, etc. I figure they have faith in the product so they can offer a warrantee. Perhaps I need to reconsider....
 

Davidwnuc

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On order ‘22 RCSB.
That's great the dealership has your back. How does the Whipple/Roush warrantee play in this scenario?

In general or SC trucks? I've only read a handful of CAT issues on SC 5.0 in F-150's and Mustangs. I certainly went into this thinking I'm safe from harm, long distance road trips, moderate towing, daily driver, etc. Perhaps I need to take some action.....
Initially the service guy said ford would handle it.
I emailed Roush asking if they have tune revisions or if i could datalog to verify if the tune was melting the cats or not. The person on the other end of the email recommended that the dealer open a case with them (Roush) and go from there.

Service guy said he hasn’t seen any newer vehicles come in with bad cats, supercharged or not, only older vehicles.

First order of action would be to have someone review some log data for your truck and go from there.
I contacted several tuners in the last couple days.
Palm Beach and Livernois said they are now tuning 2021+ Roush Supercharged F150s. I am going to let this current issue run its course and take action after.
 

TexasTruck

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I contacted several tuners in the last couple days.
Palm Beach and Livernois said they are now tuning 2021+ Roush Supercharged F150s.
How do you start that conversation? I'm using the Whipple tune.
 

Davidwnuc

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How do you start that conversation? I'm using the Whipple tune.
You have more options because you have the Whipple.
If i were you, I would call or email a few of the tuners and tell them you are shopping around for a tune and that you are concerned about melting cats with stock tune. You will need to purchase their tuning package before any of them will look at your data. So be prepared to loose whatever warranty you may have with your current setup.
Make a decision based on the conversations you have them. If you don’t want to loose the warranty, call Whipple and have a conversation with them about your concerns and go from there.
I don’t know how this is going to go with Roush yet. I told the customer representative via email that I would do whatever i needed to do to get them datalogs to review. They told me that I can open my own case and start working with someone at Roush. I decided to let the dealer mess with it first and if needed i will open a case after the current cat issue is resolved.

No matter what happens, I will post an update.
 

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As a future super-charged RCSB owner, I've been watching threads like these to keep myself informed with what other owners are experiencing.

I plan on upgrading the cats and exhaust to give a bit more breathing room (hopefully avoiding) with any cat issues that others are encountering.

Now, with the whole idle almost stall deal, I'm thinking that super-charging is taxing the factory fuel pump at it's limit, even with Whipple and Roush's claims. Is there a factory fuel pump that could help with this? Say, like the one used on the Raptor R? (if it is in fact more robust that the others.)
 

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I'm running the vortech kit with ID 1050s & VMPs PnP pump voltage booster and during the first tune iteration my idle was rough and low after pressing the gas or coming to an abrupt stop. All else was fantastic, just the choppy idle. It never stalled but did drop low enough to where I thought it was going to stall. I sent the logs out and the next tune iteration cleared it up. It was a tune based fix focusing on the 3.5 MAP sensor, not lack of fueling.

@TexasTruck I spoke to Livernois and they said as long as I'm running the 3.5 EB MAP, they'd tune my V3-SI kit via their MyCalibrator no problem. I called and left them a VM, they called back to confirm my upgrades and I had a quote. This was back when I was figuring out all the who/what/where on my kit. Surely they'd field your whipple no problem but I do believe a lot of the CAT concerns are extremely polarized on the internet.

The F150/Whipple combo is so popular that my son's school resource officer asked me if mine was a whipple truck after hearing mine whine at drop-off. Meme videos are out there providing hints on how to identify a whipple F150. I bet there are thousands of 14th gens happily running them.
 

Davidwnuc

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On order ‘22 RCSB.
As a future super-charged RCSB owner, I've been watching threads like these to keep myself informed with what other owners are experiencing.

I plan on upgrading the cats and exhaust to give a bit more breathing room (hopefully avoiding) with any cat issues that others are encountering.

Now, with the whole idle almost stall deal, I'm thinking that super-charging is taxing the factory fuel pump at it's limit, even with Whipple and Roush's claims. Is there a factory fuel pump that could help with this? Say, like the one used on the Raptor R? (if it is in fact more robust that the others.)
the Roush kit comes with a boost-a-pump kit. i have no issues except for the new cat problem.
 

TexasTruck

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Surely they'd field your whipple no problem but I do believe a lot of the CAT concerns are extremely polarized on the internet.
Thanks @staying_tuned . A year ago I was running the Livernois tune. We worked through a couple of issues and all the while were great to work with.

Back before I made the decision to SC, I reached out to Whipple about the CAT concerns and they responded with the following. I hope Whipple doesn't mind me passing on their response here.

Proper spark plug maintenance is very important for catalytic converter life. The #1 cause of failure is due to excessive misfires caused by mechanical issues. The other main reason is from abusive driving. We use the factory cat protection logic to enrich the fuel in order to keep cat temps in check. While this is effective in most cases, repeated WOT pulls without any cool down time can still overheat them causing them to degrade. As long as you are mindful of this and allow a few minutes of cool-down time between WOT pulls (cruising or normal driving), then you will be okay.
 

Davidwnuc

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lol
From my experience that response sounds like a copout. But I could be wrong and my truck could have been misfiring without throwing any sort of code. Maybe that response only applies to Whipple issues and Roush will take a different approach. We shall see
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