Has anyone drilled into their roof yet?

[somecatchyphrase]

Hello esteemed members of the forum.

I am strongly considering installing a pair of Yakima track kit permanent mount ( https://yakima.com/products/54-trac...46640&pr_ref_pid=4178818105392&pr_seq=uniform ). I have scoured the internet/forums and can't find much info about this type of installation. Has anyone out there done it or something similar? Are there any good resources anyone knows about?

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[Rineland]

I used to work for Thule and have done several of these installs as I was design responsible for the majority of the North and South American roof rack kits. As you’ve probably discovered, it requires drilling the roof and installing expanding nuts (like a rivet) to secure the tracks to the roof (with plenty of silicone to prevent leaks). I would recommend using 3M window weld to seal the rivnuts, it’s amazing stuff and adheres extremely well, although it can be very messy to work with so use with caution. When it comes to choosing a location you want to be inboard of the roof “ditch” (where the roof panel is welded to the body side), about as close as you can be so the track is in complete contact with the roof surface. Prior to install you could pull down the headliner on the sides to check that it is all clear (it generally is as the side curtain airbags are tucked up into the cavity formed by the side panels). Another good tip is to use electrical tape on the drill bit to set the depth so you don’t penetrate the roof panel too far and catch the headliner. One company that does these installs frequently is Rack Attack. They may provide some insight or support over the phone and may even have photos from an install they’ve done. I’m not sure if they would require you purchase through them to provide this support though.

I imagine you’ve explored other rack options, including the clamp style. Is there a particular reason you’re choosing to go with the “permanent install” option instead of clamp style?

 

[Motomandan]

You need to take special precautions due to Dissimilar metals. This can cause galvanic corrosion. Due to the aluminum body.

 

[Rineland]

You need to take special precautions due to Dissimilar metals. This can cause galvanic corrosion. Due to the aluminum body.

The rivnuts and the track are aluminum, no dissimilar metals, at least in contact with the vehicle body. Now, the bolts securing the track to the rivnuts are stainless steel which can be subject to galvanic corrosion, but it’s heavily coated in silicone and I’ve not seen it ever being an issue. IIRC the rivnuts have a thin foam gasket on the bottom of them to reduce water penetration and prevent contact with the paint surface.

 

[Buyer2021]

When it comes to choosing a location you want to be inboard of the roof “ditch” (where the roof panel is welded to the body side), about as close as you can be so the track is in complete contact with the roof surface.

Just curious, in addition to 'complete contact' fore-to-aft, do these permanent rails need to be located so they are in the same plane 'side-to-side'?

Eyeballing my roof it seems they'd have to be quite a way inboard of the ditch to match the second example IF that's required for best functionality.

 

[Rineland]

Just curious, in addition to 'complete contact' fore-to-aft, do these permanent rails need to be located so they are in the same plane 'side-to-side'?

Eyeballing my roof they'd have to be quite a ways inboard of the ditch to match the second example.

I know with the Thule system, there is some camber adjustment in the foot (or there was when I was there, they’ve launched a completely new foot system and although providing A LOT of input for the requirements, I’m not sure what the final product has). Yakima should have some as well. In the drawing you provided, the lower sketch is preferred for install to keep it away from the airbag modules.

Strength-wise, the side body panels are incredibly strong. IIHS does a roof strength test that applies force on the edge of the roof, right on that section. They used to provide a force-deformation graph on their website for each vehicle that we used to help determine the strength in that region for clamp racks. The limiting factor for the clamp style rack is not the roof substrate, it’s actually the angle in the door frame that the door seal makes contact with. Think of putting a C clamp on a standard table vs a table with a beveled bottom edge. The clamp racks clamp like the C clamp but they also squeeze across car (driver to passenger side). As the angle in the door becomes more vertical, more cross-car clamping is required to secure the rack. Considering the clamping force is carried across the crossbar (which is why on some installations you see the crossbar dip slightly when tightened, also why the Thule bars are pre curved upwards), the section modulus of the crossbar plays a role in the clamping force. The weight limit is not actually based on how much the roof can hold, rather how well the rack can clamp and provide enough friction to resist a “City Crash”. It’s allowed to move during the test but it cannot detach from the roof and nothing greater than 10 grams can detach from the assembly. The acceleration impulse is around 12g in the forward direction for a specified duration (I think it was around 50-100ms). This is one of many tests that can dictate the weight limit, but it is the most significant factor.

My knowledge in this area is the main driver for asking if there is a reason the OP is not considering a clamp rack. Sometimes it’s a strength concern, other times it’s accessory compatibility with the specified bar spreads or interaction with other installations on the roof. Sometimes it’s looks. The latter being very valid and understandable responses, while the former can usually be circumvented with the knowledge I posted above. The weight limit protocol and testing above is confirmed for Thule, I’m not familiar with how Yakima classifies their rack systems. I only have the results of comparison tests we did and I can say that it’s very unlikely Yakima bases their weight limits on a similar City Crash protocol based on the results I witnessed.

 

[somecatchyphrase]

@Rineland Thanks for the expert feedback. Much appreciated. To best answer your question " I imagine you’ve explored other rack options, including the clamp style. Is there a particular reason you’re choosing to go with the “permanent install” option instead of clamp style?" I need to give a little background:

I reached out to Yakima customer service to find the baseclip numbers for my specific model F150 (Super Crew 4x4 6.5ft bed) and they gave me the part numbers I would need to mount their baseline tower system to our naked roofs. Next I reached out to Rack Attack to order said baseclips and they claimed that Yakima does not currently have a baseclip that fits. I questioned them hard and even cross verified the product number provided by Yakima customer service. Annoyed, I took my business to Etrailer who sold me the clips that Yakima also said would fit. I install my clip on roof rack system and alas, the baseclips do not fit properly. See pics below. I contacted Etrailer and they had their tech check photos I sent them of the install. I was hoping that it was just some silly error I was repeatedly making but the Etrailer tech confirmed that I did indeed have the wrong baseclips and that Yakima does not have baseclips yet that fit my F150 (which is strange because it is probably the most common trim model). I am unsure if the tech spoke with Yakima directly or could just tell from the install that they were wrong. Annoyed, I am sending my shipment back and pursing other options. To be clear: both Rack Attack and Etrailer were professional to deal with, I guess Rack Attack just caught the error on Yakima's end first. I think what happened is a difference in the nomenclature that Yakima uses to describe F150 models created confusion. Check out their fitment site and see for yourself: https://fitlookup.yakima.com/

I have reached out to Yakima seeking clarification and perhaps correcting an error on their end. I have yet to hear back.

One positive of this experience is that I got to do some proof of concept testing for my envisioned cab roof rack system. I did get to drive around with the racks on for a bit as I waited to hear back from Etrailer. (Note: the racks are still quite secure even with the wrong baseclips, though I would not drive with anything mounted knowing they are incorrect). So to answer the "why a track system"

• Yakima does not make the right base clip anyway
• After driving around with the clip on tower setup I have decided that the wind noise is too annoying to deal with all the time. With a track system I can use the Yakima landing pads to quick disconnect the towers when not in use.
  • I am curious if some of the windnoise may be attributed to the wrong clips being used, perhaps the small gaps left by these ill fitting clips are contributing to some of the higher pitched wind noise?
• I have not delved into specific measurements but I ~think~ the track+landing pad setup will be more low profile than the clip on setup.
• In some situations I carry a canoe or two where I would want the crossbars a certain distance apart for best fit. Other times I am carrying a cargo box that requires the crossbars to be closer together. The adjustability of the track system would work well here.
• My entire truck is wrapped in PPF and the clips have damaged the material (something I knew would happen going into it). The "damage" is inside the door jamb so aesthetically it does not matter but I do wonder if it may reduce the integrity of the rest of the film. If I knew I were keeping the baseclip setup it would not bother me because it is probably fine, but now I have all these other justifications to add.

After checking my measurements/instructions/videos/forums several times these are the pics I send to ETrailer asking for verification. This is NOT what the proper setup should look like. The protective coating on one of the baseclips came apart during the install. Lame. The feet of the rear baseclips seem to fit in the gutter better but the actual clamp portion is still off. Photo bomb incoming:

 

[somecatchyphrase]

Here are some pics of the (faulty) setup:

 

[Rineland]

@Rineland Thanks for the expert feedback. Much appreciated. To best answer your question " I imagine you’ve explored other rack options, including the clamp style. Is there a particular reason you’re choosing to go with the “permanent install” option instead of clamp style?" I need to give a little background:

I reached out to Yakima customer service to find the baseclip numbers for my specific model F150 (Super Crew 4x4 6.5ft bed) and they gave me the part numbers I would need to mount their baseline tower system to our naked roofs. Next I reached out to Rack Attack to order said baseclips and they claimed that Yakima does not currently have a baseclip that fits. I questioned them hard and even cross verified the product number provided by Yakima customer service. Annoyed, I took my business to Etrailer who sold me the clips that Yakima also said would fit. I install my clip on roof rack system and alas, the baseclips do not fit properly. See pics below. I contacted Etrailer and they had their tech check photos I sent them of the install. I was hoping that it was just some silly error I was repeatedly making but the Etrailer tech confirmed that I did indeed have the wrong baseclips and that Yakima does not have baseclips yet that fit my F150 (which is strange because it is probably the most common trim model). I am unsure if the tech spoke with Yakima directly or could just tell from the install that they were wrong. Annoyed, I am sending my shipment back and pursing other options. To be clear: both Rack Attack and Etrailer were professional to deal with, I guess Rack Attack just caught the error on Yakima's end first. I think what happened is a difference in the nomenclature that Yakima uses to describe F150 models created confusion. Check out their fitment site and see for yourself: https://fitlookup.yakima.com/

I have reached out to Yakima seeking clarification and perhaps correcting an error on their end. I have yet to hear back.

One positive of this experience is that I got to do some proof of concept testing for my envisioned cab roof rack system. I did get to drive around with the racks on for a bit as I waited to hear back from Etrailer. (Note: the racks are still quite secure even with the wrong baseclips, though I would not drive with anything mounted knowing they are incorrect). So to answer the "why a track system"

• Yakima does not make the right base clip anyway
• After driving around with the clip on tower setup I have decided that the wind noise is too annoying to deal with all the time. With a track system I can use the Yakima landing pads to quick disconnect the towers when not in use.
  • I am curious if some of the windnoise may be attributed to the wrong clips being used, perhaps the small gaps left by these ill fitting clips are contributing to some of the higher pitched wind noise?
• I have not delved into specific measurements but I ~think~ the track+landing pad setup will be more low profile than the clip on setup.
• In some situations I carry a canoe or two where I would want the crossbars a certain distance apart for best fit. Other times I am carrying a cargo box that requires the crossbars to be closer together. The adjustability of the track system would work well here.
• My entire truck is wrapped in PPF and the clips have damaged the material (something I knew would happen going into it). The "damage" is inside the door jamb so aesthetically it does not matter but I do wonder if it may reduce the integrity of the rest of the film. If I knew I were keeping the baseclip setup it would not bother me because it is probably fine, but now I have all these other justifications to add.

After checking my measurements/instructions/videos/forums several times these are the pics I send to ETrailer asking for verification. This is NOT what the proper setup should look like. The protective coating on one of the baseclips came apart during the install. Lame. The feet of the rear baseclips seem to fit in the gutter better but the actual clamp portion is still off. Photo bomb incoming:

Yeah, those base clips look terrible. I think the damage to the PPF was due to the clip pulling too far up and too little cross-car, and the rubber pads they glue to the metal bracket slipping off. The base pad would be a decent fit if the foot had enough yaw to adjust to the taper of the roof, and if the feet were budged out by a mm or so on each side. I think the bracket and the pad fit, as well as the crossbar shape (lack of a wind strip) likely caused the majority of the noise you experienced. That crossbar length you have pictured I'm guessing is their 70" given the protrusion beyond the feet. If you need that length, you'd have to upsize to the 69" (175cm) ProBar from Thule which may have more noise. Based on the accessories shown attached, you need just about every inch of that.

I actually designed the Thule kit for these trucks, 145177 and 145271 (both fit, the 145271 is slightly different as there was a relief cut in the pads of 145271 to accommodate the moulding over the ditch on the Super Duty). 145271 was actually handed off to my direct report to finish as I was leaving (February of 2021). I remember it distinctly as I had just picked up my new 2021 F-150 (I have a 2022 now, see thread Major Service Mishap if you want to know how I got into that). The Thule kits are all custom fit to the vehicle. There's a catalog of brackets, but when the new Thule Evo system launched we had to create all new components. The contact area of the brackets are crowned so that the middle contacts first and flattens out as it's tightened and the protective coating on the brackets is proprietary to Thule. The corners of the contact surface are also radiused so there is no sharp pressure points there. All this to say, I don't think you would have damaged the PPF coating with a Thule system. Granted, to get an aero style crossbar, you're limited to 60", 10" less than you really need. The ProBar is an option, but the noise may not be up to expectations. It wasn't terrible on the 2010 Tundra I had, but that cab was much noisier and the tires (Toyo Open Country AT3s in 295/70/18 on Method Roost wheels) really droned things out that it wasn't really any increase in cabin noise. Usually I'd just turn up the radio. Although, I mostly rode solo in that truck as it was owned by Thule. Judging by the chalk artwork in progress in one of the photos, my guess is your volume knob barely makes it past 10 on trips you'd be using the rack. I have three of my own (chalk artists) and it's rare that I get to let the B&O shine. If you find a place that offered customer satisfaction returns, it might be worth a shot to try it out. Granted, you'll have the slightly increased install time of positioning and tightening the rack each time you uninstall/reinstall.

Yakima definitely has a unique selling point with their quick release kit for the track system. Easy on/off is a great feature that benefits noise and fuel economy. The clamp racks are easy enough to remove, but take a bit more time to put back on. A silver sharpie mark in the doorframe can speed things up so you're not pulling out a tape measure each time. With a crew cab and a fairly straight roofline and door frame, the bar spread is fairly adjustable (almost as much as a track system would have) without adjusting the foot spacing on the bar (145271 is the same 1321mm spacing for the front and rear crossbars). The roofline does look quite slanted near the ditch (red arrow). My concern there would be if there is enough roll adjustability in the kit to allow the foot to mount properly and if there is enough width for the track. Rack Attack may know how much adjustability is in the kit if you can measure the angle and width of the surface the red arrow is pointing to below, referenced from level across the roof (driver to passenger side). Where the green arrow is I think is a better option but strength becomes a concern. I'll take a look on top of my truck tomorrow and see. The track does help distribute the force from the rack, but if it does cause deformation, it tends to make a bigger dimple than a localized one.

 

[somecatchyphrase]

Here is an image from the Yakima website with the different model F150 options. Most all of the options seem to use the baseclip that I was mistakenly sent. When selecting the 4dr option it prompts that no fit is available, which lines up with what Rack Attack initially told me and ETrailer later confirmed after I did the install. Can anyone decipher the nomenclature Yakima is using to describe our trucks? What is a "Super Crew 2+dr" for example? I imagine both the Yakima customer service rep and ETrailer got confused by this.

 

[Rineland]

Here is an image from the Yakima website with the different model F150 options. Most all of the options seem to use the baseclip that I was mistakenly sent. When selecting the 4dr option it prompts that no fit is available, which lines up with what Rack Attack initially told me and ETrailer later confirmed after I did the install. Can anyone decipher the nomenclature Yakima is using to describe our trucks? What is a "Super Crew 2+dr" for example? I imagine both the Yakima customer service rep and ETrailer got confused by this.

I think they have an error in updating their site for 2023 models (not uncommon for them, I used to see this in the past when I did competitive analyses against them). Looking up the info for a 2022 F-150 Super Crew 2+ dr, the base clip numbers are 197 front and rear and it shows the year range as 2021-2023. My theory on the 2+ dr nomenclature is that they are carrying over model info (copy/paste) from the Super Cab from the late 90s which had 2 doors plus the half suicide door on the passenger side. Super Crews obviously have 4 doors, I think it's just pulling the data from their database or they have a data error, perhaps a duplication and find/replace issue. What's really interesting is that the Ford Lightning (same cabs and roofs as the standard F-150) shows 197 for the front and 109 for the rear and M1 and M3 are 1/4" and 5/8" (respectively) wider than the standard F-150. The fit should be the same as the regular F-150. The interesting thing is they show the Tower as BaseLine Towers 2016-2022. Maybe there was a design change in 2023 and that's why it's showing a no fit on the main website. I'm assuming the "832" base clip stamped on the bottom of the bracket in your photos is the bracket number they sent you, which I haven't found as a recommendation on the fit lookup site or the main site. It's shocking to me that Yakima customer service doesn't have some inside info on this to explain the discrepancies. If you call back, I'd start by asking why the fit lookup site has different info from the main site for the Lightning and follow up asking why the fit info is different than the standard F-150. I'd also ask why when you choose 2023 in the drop down that it shows Check for Update, whereas when you select 2022 a valid fit comes up and it shows the year range as 2021-2023. If they can't answer these questions, hopefully they escalate it to the fit team and start digging to find answers.

Looking at the regular site reflects the same 197 base clip info, although it shows out of stock.

No fit for the 2022 F-150 Lightning on the main site.

 

[somecatchyphrase]

It is disappointing that a "premier" manufacturer of racks cannot manage to keep their database/fit specs updated for the number one selling truck. I have emailed them my concerns and had an auto response that it may take up to two weeks to respond. They are on Pacific time and I am on Eastern, so I don't have much availability to chat via phone during their call center hours.

Regardless, I am removing the faulty system from my roof and shipping it back to ETrailer. As stated earlier I am somewhat fortunate that I only wasted time and not money, I was happy to be able to test fit a full system enough to determine that I ~think~ tracks are the way to go for me. I would like focus this thread about drilling tracks into the roof. There is not much useful info out there for our specific trucks. I feel fortunate that @Rineland has chimed in with expert insight.

I am trying to convince myself to do it, if only for pride and self satisfaction. I have many questions.

When it comes to placing the tracks on the roof: " The roofline does look quite slanted near the ditch (red arrow). My concern there would be if there is enough roll adjustability in the kit to allow the foot to mount properly and if there is enough width for the track. Rack Attack may know how much adjustability is in the kit if you can measure the angle and width of the surface the red arrow is pointing to below, referenced from level across the roof (driver to passenger side). Where the green arrow is I think is a better option but strength becomes a concern. "

• Is mounting in the rain gutter not an option? Looking more closely I see that it is a curved vs flat surface.
• I would want to place the tracks is the strongest most optimal position. Rack Attack has a good image finder on their website of installs they have done ( https://www.rackattack.com/car-rack-installations/ford/f-150/) and a cursory search showed only one of our model F150s with the tracks mounted where the green arrow is. Is this because that location is the best/strongest, or just because it is the easiest?
• ~If~ mounting where the red arrow is indeed the strongest I would prefer to mount it there, but as stated above that may be too steep an angle for the landing pads. Rack attack has a good video showing the track towers with their adjustability, though I fear it is too steep an angle: https://www.rackattack.com/permanent-custom-mount-roof-rack-systems/yakima-tracktower/

I have many more questions but perhaps it is best to keep them loosely categorized for future forum creepers to reference. So in this round, does anyone have insight about the placement of a track system on our roofs?

 

[Rineland]

It is disappointing that a "premier" manufacturer of racks cannot manage to keep their database/fit specs updated for the number one selling truck. I have emailed them my concerns and had an auto response that it may take up to two weeks to respond. They are on Pacific time and I am on Eastern, so I don't have much availability to chat via phone during their call center hours.

Regardless, I am removing the faulty system from my roof and shipping it back to ETrailer. As stated earlier I am somewhat fortunate that I only wasted time and not money, I was happy to be able to test fit a full system enough to determine that I ~think~ tracks are the way to go for me. I would like focus this thread about drilling tracks into the roof. There is not much useful info out there for our specific trucks. I feel fortunate that @Rineland has chimed in with expert insight.

I am trying to convince myself to do it, if only for pride and self satisfaction. I have many questions.

When it comes to placing the tracks on the roof: " The roofline does look quite slanted near the ditch (red arrow). My concern there would be if there is enough roll adjustability in the kit to allow the foot to mount properly and if there is enough width for the track. Rack Attack may know how much adjustability is in the kit if you can measure the angle and width of the surface the red arrow is pointing to below, referenced from level across the roof (driver to passenger side). Where the green arrow is I think is a better option but strength becomes a concern. "

• Is mounting in the rain gutter not an option? Looking more closely I see that it is a curved vs flat surface.
• I would want to place the tracks is the strongest most optimal position. Rack Attack has a good image finder on their website of installs they have done ( https://www.rackattack.com/car-rack-installations/ford/f-150/) and a cursory search showed only one of our model F150s with the tracks mounted where the green arrow is. Is this because that location is the best/strongest, or just because it is the easiest?
• ~If~ mounting where the red arrow is indeed the strongest I would prefer to mount it there, but as stated above that may be too steep an angle for the landing pads. Rack attack has a good video showing the track towers with their adjustability, though I fear it is too steep an angle: https://www.rackattack.com/permanent-custom-mount-roof-rack-systems/yakima-tracktower/

I have many more questions but perhaps it is best to keep them loosely categorized for future forum creepers to reference. So in this round, does anyone have insight about the placement of a track system on our roofs?

Mounting in the rain gutter (ditch) could be an option if it's wide enough to fit the track. The entire length of that section is arguably the strongest part of the roof. It does have some curvature to it though, so you'd want to have something to fill in the edges to make it a flat surface so the track isn't just in contact at the top. I'd be worried if the track was mounted tangentially on that ditch weld that it could flex and fatigue the material around the track mounting points over time. It does not appear to be wide enough to accommodate the tracks though. I believe the install shown on the Rack Attack site is mounted where the green arrow is, is due to the feasibility of that area. It's away from any airbag modules and it a reasonably flat surface to easily mount the tracks. If they are mounting their permanent installs there, I'd feel pretty confident in the strength for mounting the tracks in that location. Rack Attack has been doing permanent installs for a very long time and they are one of, if not, the best at that style of install. I also think they mounted there due to the steepness of the angle where the red arrow is pointing. The foot does not appear to have the articulation to be able to mount in that area.

 

[udelaware30]

This hard mounted rack looks awesome and uses the rain gutter to mount the feet. Not as quick to remove as the track style, but interesting that they are using the rain gutter with rivet nuts.

 

[JJSnell]

Hello esteemed members of the forum.

I am strongly considering installing a pair of Yakima track kit permanent mount ( https://yakima.com/products/54-trac...46640&pr_ref_pid=4178818105392&pr_seq=uniform ). I have scoured the internet/forums and can't find much info about this type of installation. Has anyone out there done it or something similar? Are there any good resources anyone knows about?

I've read this entire thread and lots of helpful info. I have only two things:

1. Why not go with a ladder rack type option? I have a full ladder rack for 16ft and longer lumber. But also use it for our 11ft paddle board. I have seen non-cabover racks that might handle your kayak\canoe and travel tote?

2. ....and I accept this is just me and probably a narrow minded opinion, but I won't ever buy an auto that has drill holes through the body panels. Something to think about when you go to resell this truck. You might be limiting future buyers.... maybe.

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