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HammaMan

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Sorry for the confusion, I'm aware of the differences, I was just trying to simplify since most people are familiar with lipo. No Worries.

That's exactly what its doing. Defiantly likes to cycle the battery. Especially with the shorter trips, the PB would see a great improvement if it ran a lithium main and AUX batt. As you said, The DCDC can supply huge amounts of power, Couple that with a fast charging Lithium battery and should have no trouble topping off day to day in a few mile drive.

Have you checked the size of the wire supplying the AUX battery? Its intended more as a system maintainer. With the increased ability to supply and absorb power, Can the existing power wire hold up to that?
Yes, it's 4ga. It's barely got any warmth to it after 10m of 100a draw. Upon closer inspection the DC/DC is behind the battery isolator so that's why there's no voltage fluctuation on engine start. All of the truck's circuits sit behind the battery isolator.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 1680120046776

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 1680120077372

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 1680120111141


There's you a better understanding of the charging / batt config @Snakebitten
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scott011422

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Yes, it's 4ga. It's barely got any warmth to it after 10m of 100a draw. Upon closer inspection the DC/DC is behind the battery isolator so that's why there's no voltage fluctuation on engine start. All of the truck's circuits sit behind the battery isolator.

There's you a better understanding of the charging / batt config @Snakebitten

Thats a great catch! I totally missed that!

Do you know what is connected at AA?
 

HammaMan

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Thats a great catch! I totally missed that!

Do you know what is connected at AA?
Yes, the belt starter generator. The other starter is the flywheel starter
 

scott011422

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Jersey, While perusing Michell I found a section speaking to the SOC calibration. It says that SOC calibration occurs whenever the key is off, and the total system load is under 400Ma. Once these two conditions are met, SOC recal will be performed after being in "Deep Sleep" between 5 and 6 hours.

So you seeing roughly 7 hours after turning the truck off seems to be right on.
 

Big Dog Daddy

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10 week follow up.

On January 30th I installed a new H8 battery in my truck in place of the H7. Prior to installing the new battery the truck would not maintain a SOC level above 65%. I was under the impression that having a "short trip truck" driven less then 12 miles a day that there wasn't much that could be done except to charge the battery once and a while to maintain a higher SOC.

Well....
After 71 days of logging the SOC level in my short commute truck. I can safely say my battery issues are behind me now. The new H8 battery consistently maintains a 85 to 87% SOC with the SOC set to 90%.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230411_131527
 

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Snakebitten

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Truck sat for a few days (weather was so nice that I had to play)

This morning I started the truck and was presented perhaps the lowest 12V SOC yet. 67%

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230421_092436


And although the screenshot caught it at 18Amps of charging, it actually went to 20-22Amps for several miles.

I think it's the highest sustained charge rate I have seen, so the battery management algorithm doesn't even like <70% SOC? 🤣

At that rate I also witnessed the quickest increase in SOC that I remember. Amazing how throwing a decent amount of current at the battery will raise it's SOC.

Upon arrival to the office, only 23 miles, the SOC had increased to 75% and the well established conservative charge rate was in play. 6Amps

No doubt it will be dropping to 1Amp on my return trip home, regardless of my Forscan edit at 95%.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230421_100635


I'm convinced that the logic is targeting ~80%.

1 of my fair weather F150 12V AGM battery killers:

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 20230419_121258
 

scott011422

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Truck sat for a few days (weather was so nice that I had to play)

This morning I started the truck and was presented perhaps the lowest 12V SOC yet. 67%

Screenshot_20230421_092436.jpg


And although the screenshot caught it at 18Amps of charging, it actually went to 20-22Amps for several miles.

I think it's the highest sustained charge rate I have seen, so the battery management algorithm doesn't even like <70% SOC? 🤣

At that rate I also witnessed the quickest increase in SOC that I remember. Amazing how throwing a decent amount of current at the battery will raise it's SOC.

Upon arrival to the office, only 23 miles, the SOC had increased to 75% and the well established conservative charge rate was in play. 6Amps

No doubt it will be dropping to 1Amp on my return trip home, regardless of my Forscan edit at 95%.

Screenshot_20230421_100635.jpg


I'm convinced that the logic is targeting ~80%.

1 of my fair weather F150 12V AGM battery killers:

20230419_121258.jpg

Snake, Do you have a screenshot from the BT meter? What was the battery voltage prior to starting?
 

Snakebitten

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Snake, Do you have a screenshot from the BT meter? What was the battery voltage prior to starting?
I had checked it last night around bedtime. Of course the app is considerably less generous at interpreting SOC, compared to the BMS on the truck.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230421_105435_Battery Monitor


Log for all day yesterday up to the moment I checked above

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230421_105503_Battery Monitor


Previous day. Started ~12.5V

I think those 2 hits were me opening the door to the truck to fetch something. No FOB in the pocket, so it wasn't a walk-by proximity wakeup event.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20230421_105529_Battery Monitor


So bleeding about 1/4V per 24 hours?

The good news is I did nurse that factory battery beyond a full year in service. Day 375 :)
 

scott011422

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I had checked it last night around bedtime. Of course the app is considerably less generous at interpreting SOC, compared to the BMS on the truck.

Log for all day yesterday up to the moment I checked above

Previous day. Started ~12.5V

I think those 2 hits were me opening the door to the truck to fetch something. No FOB in the pocket, so it wasn't a walk-by proximity wakeup event.

So bleeding about 1/4V per 24 hours?

The good news is I did nurse that factory battery beyond a full year in service. Day 375 :)
I see about the same as your graphs. Although you are .2v over 43 hours. I didn't drive at all on sunday, Got home about 9PM Sat night. 12.85 at midnight. 12.72 next midnight.
 

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I'm guessing a fresh new AGM can hold it's unused static SOC better than a 1 year old or injured AGM can?

I'm still not anxious about my battery leaving me stranded. I pay way too much attention to it and until I see it struggling with staying above say.... 12.1?

I'll squeeze it for all it can give me.
Afterall, it's the victim here, not the culprit. :)
 

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I've been trying to figure out these AGM batteries. The electro-chemical potential of a lead acid battery at no load is ~13.2 VDC. This its fully charged terminal voltage. I have charged up an AGM battery to 13.2 VDC. It then ran back down to 12.6 VDC. I've then taken a fully charged AGM battery out of the truck and observed its terminal voltage on zero float: 12.6 VDC... Not connected to the truck electrical system or anything. It stays stable at 12.6VDC... What gives? Anyone have an idea
 

scott011422

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I've been trying to figure out these AGM batteries. The electro-chemical potential of a lead acid battery at no load is ~13.2 VDC. This its fully charged terminal voltage. I have charged up an AGM battery to 13.2 VDC. It then ran back down to 12.6 VDC. I've then taken a fully charged AGM battery out of the truck and observed its terminal voltage on zero float: 12.6 VDC... Not connected to the truck electrical system or anything. It stays stable at 12.6VDC... What gives? Anyone have an idea
A disconnected AGM that was properly charged should stay higher than that if it was healthy. My year old AGM from ford is sitting at 12.78 after sitting for 2 months in the garage after a full charge with the odyssey charger.


The 12.6 out of the truck, especially if it’s still set at 80% SOC will be 12.3-12.6 most of the time.

To be honest, my new Odyssey at 95% SOC is still mostly 12.6
 

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A disconnected AGM that was properly charged should stay higher than that if it was healthy. My year old AGM from ford is sitting at 12.78 after sitting for 2 months in the garage after a full charge with the odyssey charger.


The 12.6 out of the truck, especially if it’s still set at 80% SOC will be 12.3-12.6 most of the time.

To be honest, my new Odyssey at 95% SOC is still mostly 12.6
Well, it is the OEM Battery. So maybe it's showing the fault I've posited in these OEM Battereies... Hm-m-m... What you describe above is not what I see with the NAPA replacement battery. It charges up to 13.2 VDC and unless it's installed in the truck it seems to hold that 13.2 VDC. If in the truck, the system runs it down to 12.6VDC...
 

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I've been trying to figure out these AGM batteries. The electro-chemical potential of a lead acid battery at no load is ~13.2 VDC. This its fully charged terminal voltage. I have charged up an AGM battery to 13.2 VDC. It then ran back down to 12.6 VDC. I've then taken a fully charged AGM battery out of the truck and observed its terminal voltage on zero float: 12.6 VDC... Not connected to the truck electrical system or anything. It stays stable at 12.6VDC... What gives? Anyone have an idea
All FLA batteries have some internal resistance which is the mechanism by which they self-discharge over time.
So when you say it stays stable at 12.6VDC out of the truck, over what period of time?
 

Gros Ventre

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All FLA batteries have some internal resistance which is the mechanism by which they self-discharge over time.
So when you say it stays stable at 12.6VDC out of the truck, over what period of time?
Days to weeks. The internal resistance of the AGM Battery is supposed to be lesser than the flooded cell battery, although they do have some. The AGM will self discharge also. At the end of the day they are the same chemistry with the same chemical reactions. The difference is in how they are constructed and assembled.
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