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Jersey Jim

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Yes I'm using Android. So if I knew for sure that the MX+ shows what I need in my PCM, I'd drop the $138 and upgrade to the MX+ in a heartbeat. Maybe someone on hear knows for certain if my 2021 2.7 eco will show amps, state-of-charge, etc. with the MX+. I'm pretty sure the guy in the video had my same truck.
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RcFlyer330

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Yes I'm using Android. So if I knew for sure that the MX+ shows what I need in my PCM, I'd drop the $138 and upgrade to the MX+ in a heartbeat. Maybe someone on hear knows for certain if my 2021 2.7 eco will show amps, state-of-charge, etc. with the MX+. I'm pretty sure the guy in the video had my same truck.
I have the obdlink mx (i have not purchased the vehicle addons in obdlink app i also purchased forscan lite) and i am pretty sure the only difference between the mx and mx+ is the mx+ comes with all vehicle addons and its a little bit faster. other than that both devices should be able to pull the exact same data from the vehicle.

Forscan lite for android and ios is a paid app but they do have Forscan demo that is free but it does not give full functionality. as of this post the android forscan lite and demo must be purchased and downloaded from forscan.org because google and Russian companies you can go to the website for more info under the whats new tab.
 

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I believe that you are correct that the MX+ is the same as the current MX, but already includes the choice of one auto-brand extended support.

I was unaware that there would be any performance difference.
 

Jersey Jim

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The OBDLink "MX" works GREAT, now that I bought the Forscan Lite for Android ($7) tonight! It literally gave hundreds of PIDs in just the PCM only. I found most of the voltage and Alternator parameters in the PCM, but didn't have time to look elsewhere for the current going through that shunt mounted on top of the negative battery post. It might be in another module.
Also, I didn't understand why the GENBPLUS_SNS_I (generator current sensor) displayed a fixed "-30 Amps" and didn't vary. The other 5 charge parameters tell me a lot though.

All I really need now is to see how many excess amps go into the battery, or out of it, when plugging loads into the 175 amp Anderson connector mounted under my rear bumper. If I interpreted it correctly, I have about 95 amps available at idle, and close to 200 when revved higher. I usually just pull 60 amps at idle out of the rear bumper connector.

Thanks for all your tips!
 

Jersey Jim

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It looks like the battery monitoring sensor mounted on the battery's negative terminal, is fed into the BCM, unlike all the other charging/alternator parameters I can see in the PCM. I really could use that sensed battery current from that shunt on top of the battery, but can't seem to get any other module in Forscan Lite (for android) other than the pcm. I know I saw many more modules when I first installed the app last night.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you pros already know this shortcut, but based on a known load I plug into my 12-volt bumper outlet, I'm forced to use this shortcut to measure current pretty accurately going in or out of the battery, at least until I can figure out how to take full advantage of the Forscan Lite app to see battery current (not alternator current).

It seems for every 1 mV dropped across the negative post shunt, 10 amps is represented. To confirm this I placed a 70-amp load on my 175-amp bumper outlet without the engine running, and the reading climbed to 7 mV of voltage drop across the shunt mounted on the negative post. Any cheap digital voltmeter should be able to read millivolts. With the meter's "positive" lead on the negative battery post, and the "negative" lead on the shunt's stud, a positive mV drop indicates amps charging the battery. If you get a "-" minus mV drop across it, then those amps are discharging OUT of the battery.

This sensor seems to be calibrated like the same very common 50 mV shunts I"ve installed in the past in solar and RV projects, (see pics below) that drops a max of 50 mV when a max of 500 amps pass through it (10 amps per mV). This is a down and dirty way to quickly, easily and accurately measure (non-intrusively) from 10 amps to hundreds, and whether or not your battery is charging or discharging.

Now if I can just figure out this Forescan!!

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 20190510_050136


Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 20190509_215356
 
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Big Dog Daddy

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It looks like the battery monitoring sensor mounted on the battery's negative terminal, is fed into the BCM, unlike all the other charging/alternator parameters I can see in the PCM. I really could use that sensed battery current from that shunt on top of the battery, but can't seem to get any other module in Forscan Lite (for android) other than the pcm. I know I saw many more modules when I first installed the app last night.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you pros already know this shortcut, but based on a known load I plug into my 12-volt bumper outlet, I'm forced to use this shortcut to measure current pretty accurately going in or out of the battery, at least until I can figure out how to take full advantage of the Forscan Lite app to see battery current (not alternator current).

It seems for every 1 mV dropped across the negative post shunt, 10 amps is represented. To confirm this I placed a 70-amp load on my 175-amp bumper outlet without the engine running, and the reading climbed to 7 mV of voltage drop across the shunt mounted on the negative post. Any cheap digital voltmeter should be able to read millivolts. With the meter's "positive" lead on the negative battery post, and the "negative" lead on the shunt's stud, a positive mV drop indicates amps charging the battery. If you get a "-" minus mV drop across it, then those amps are discharging OUT of the battery.

This sensor seems to be calibrated like the same very common 50 mV shunts I"ve installed in the past in solar and RV projects, (see pics below) that drops a max of 50 mV when a max of 500 amps pass through it (10 amps per mV). This is a down and dirty way to quickly, easily and accurately measure (non-intrusively) from 10 amps to hundreds, and whether or not your battery is charging or discharging.

Now if I can just figure out this Forescan!!

20190510_050136.jpg


20190509_215356.jpg
I'm on a similar quest with Ford's charging system. My problem is the truck never stays fully charged after weeks of only short trips and 3 batteries. I'm currently logging my daily trips with my odbmx+ and intend to report my findings here soon. I have found already that changing the SOC from 80 to 90% has had no effect on keeping the battery at a higher SOC. Pictured are the items I'm currently logging from BCM with the odbmx+ and its vehicle specific pids. My ultimate goal is to find a way to crank up the charging system to keep the battery at a higher SOC without having to put a charger on the truck every few weeks or taking hour long drives just to charge the battery.

To see my problem read this thread. https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/2021-battery-issues.13840/page-2#post-297097

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20221229-193754


Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Screenshot_20221229-193818
 

Snakebitten

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@Big Dog Daddy

What's befuttling about those pids is they reveal that the engineering to measure and record all that telemetry IS in fact onboard the Gen14, yet it's not being leveraged with the necessary logic to maintain the 12V battery at a self-sustaining level.
Surely there's enough charging potential available? Or put another way, the BMS isn't tapping the alternator for everything it's capable of producing, so why the intentional conservation?

I'm certain that I have a very oversimplified understanding of what I am looking at, but it sure seems like Ford could provide an OTA in the future that alters the charging algorithm.
 

Big Dog Daddy

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I definitely think there's enough charging potential, its a 230 amp alternator. yet it's not being directed to the battery. The other night coming home from work, heat running, wipers on, high beams on, heated seats on , and rear defrost + mirrors on. I looked down and saw the output at 62 amps. @ 1400 rpm. The .csv logs odbmx creates can be 10000 lines on a 20 minute trip. I'm taking each trip and picking interesting information and compiling it into an abbreviated xls sheet. I'll try to post this tomorrow with some comments.

Ford definitely needs to make a software adjustment. I'm hoping something can be changed in forscan. Because charging SOC does not do it
 

Jersey Jim

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Big Dog, I've read that by unplugging your alternator's 3-wire connector, the alternator output isn't modulated by their 125 hz frequency control, but instead just outputs 13.5 volts. The short time I've observed the alternator output on a trip to work (27 miles), the desired/commanded voltage levels off at around 13.0 volts after a while, but the interesting thing is..... output voltage won't shoot up to 14.77 volts until I take my foot completely off the pedal (0% TPS)!! Every time! It's almost like Ford tries to use their alternator for "Regenerative Braking" to a degree, when they know you want to stop. I've also noticed that when even slightly accelerating, the alternator is commanded to throttle back on it's output (wasting precious charging time).
Now if you can take control of your "GENCOM" command and force a higher duty-cycle somehow, then you can take full advantage of every minute you're engine is running.
I have built very simple PWM circuits in the past to control the position of hobby servo motors. This could easily be built to the same 125 hz, and alter the 3-95% duty cycle with a potentiometer dial on the dash somewhere to simply "dial up" YOUR desired charging output. Send this through a simple single-pole, double-throw switch, and you can easily switch the GENCON signal between the factory generated signal from the pcm and your manual control. (the alternator side of the cut GENCOM signal would be wired to the "common" of the 3-wire switch, selecting 1 of the 2 frequency sources. Maybe I should make up little modules with in-line alternator plugs and provide them. They make simple in-line harnesses for dumber stuff like disabling auto stop/start.
 

Jersey Jim

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......And BTW, if an older vehicle doesn't have that shunt on top of the battery post, and you still want to measure amps into and out of your battery via this 1mV per 10 amp method, simply measure the voltage drop across 2 points on your heavy battery cable at precise distances away from each other, anywhere along the cable.

4.83" apart for 4 AWG cable, or 7.68" apart for 2 AWG cable. This is the length needed to simulate the 0.0001 ohm resistance of that shunt sitting on top of the battery's negative post. This is also the "insertion loss" of that shunt.... totally insignificant. ......... OH, and if you want to double your resolution to say, 5 amps per millivollt, just double those sampling distances along the cable.

Most accurate, and as reliable as "the earth's rotation"! I call it a poor man's ammeter. Ive done this for years with a piece of 12 gauge romex conductor, (black, or white) stripped and tapped 47" apart at the measuring points. Good for measuring up to 30 amps around the house. I think this romex shunt was more like 10 mV per amp though, not calibrated the same as the auto shunts.
 
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Big Dog Daddy

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The short time I've observed the alternator output on a trip to work (27 miles), the desired/commanded voltage levels off at around 13.0 volts after a while, but the interesting thing is..... output voltage won't shoot up to 14.77 volts until I take my foot completely off the pedal (0% TPS)!! Every time! It's almost like Ford tries to use their alternator for "Regenerative Braking" to a degree, when they know you want to stop. I've also noticed that when even slightly accelerating, the alternator is commanded to throttle back on it's output (wasting precious charging time).
Wow, I see that you have an incredible understanding of electronics that I only wish I could have! Your observations regarding Ford's ICE engine charging strategy are completely correct. Ford has implemented a "smart charging system" on these trucks.

I think this was probably done in the name of CAFE standards to increase fuel mileage, which seems to end up just costing the owner more by having to drive the vehicle further in order to keep the battery charged.

I really would like to find a solution to this thru software. Either thru eventual updates to the PCM or BCM software strategies or settings that could be changed in Forscan.
 

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Jersey Jim

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BDD, What other choices do you have other than that "Conventional" charge mode? Different battery chemistry requires different charge profiles. Maybe they have a more aggressive charge mode, say for a lithium battery, that can take it. I was in your same shoes when it came to wanting to charge my motorhome house-battery in as few minutes a day as possible. This was to avoid running the generator more than an hour a day. This required me to change to a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery (300 Ah) that could safely accept 150 amps of charging. Flooded lead acid or AGM batteries just cant safely accept a charge that aggressive. I did however limit the charger to only 100 amps.

Maybe that charging mode can be switched to a "constant current" mode instead of constant voltage mode, which allows the battery current to taper off. This constant voltage mode is like when you flush a toilet, and the fuller the tank gets, the rising float causes it to fill slower and slower. Constant current mode adjusts the voltage in order to keep the current the same, putting in the bulk of the charge at a high rate.

I finally got my Forscan Lite for Android to show all my modules, and make a dashboard. I uninstalled it and reinstalled it. I'm glad I took a screenshot of my license key the other night. Now I see all 25 modules, and can make a dashboard with any parameter.

One complaint I have, is that I can only seem to create a dashboard of PIDs from one module at a time. Is that normal, or am I overlooking something? I was hoping to create a dashboard with a few from PCM and few from BodyCM. Again, Im using this on an Android.

Interestingly, I can't seem to get my battery over 79% state-of-Charge. The current drops down to 0 or 1 amp with engine running at home today after the 27 mile drive home. So I shut engine down and ran battery down a few percent with rear defroster, headlights and blower fan on full. That drained a good 80 or 90 amps for couple minutes, then restarted. I'll post a pic below of 2 screenshots of engine "Running". One just after starting, and one once fully charged several minutes later. SO my 70 amp-hour OEM battery only lets me hold 55 amp-hours. And with all that parasitic load!!

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Running Just Started


Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories Running Fully Charged
 
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Big Dog Daddy

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I've looked at many of the BCM settings in the forscan spreadsheet in the Forscan thread. Under options for battery type there are 2 flooded or agm. I'm set to agm. Between reading the service manual and studying the possible settings in the bcm if I understand correctly. "Conventional charging" is the normal mode of operation. And once every 40 days the BCM commands "refresh mode" 40 days is the factory setting and I'm considering changing this to 20 or 10 days in order to top off the battery more frequently. I've been monitoring this for a while and have yet to catch it in refresh mode. I believe that when a refresh happens it will continue charging until the setting in the bcm is achieved, which in my case should be 90% SOC which I have already changed from the factory default of 80% in forscan. I'm very tempted to change that refresh "days" down to 1 (as a test) to induce a refresh but I'm a little afraid of screwing up the truck.

For me alot of this steams from the fact that OTA's will not install unless the battery is at 80 soc, so scheduled updates fail to install when the truck is parked because the 80% condition has not been met. Thus I've installed every module update on the truck so far with my laptop and FDRS. Which is becoming an expensive proposition for something I should have gotten for free.

The odbmx+ with its free vehicle specific software will allow you to monitor and log or create dashboards from multiple modules at the same time.

Ford F-150 Ford BMS Battery Monitoring System: How it Works, How to Properly Charge, How to Power Accessories 20230106_210607
 

Big Dog Daddy

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@Jersey Jim
Interestingly, I can't seem to get my battery over 79% state-of-Charge. The current drops down to 0 or 1 amp with engine running at home today after the 27 mile drive home. So I shut engine down and ran battery down a few percent with rear defroster, headlights and blower fan on full. That drained a good 80 or 90 amps for couple minutes, then restarted. I'll post a pic below of 2 screenshots of engine "Running". One just after starting, and one once fully charged several minutes later. SO my 70 amp-hour OEM battery only lets me hold 55 amp-hours. And with all that parasitic load!!

79% is right wear it should be all of the time just below the 80% SOC threshold set in the bcm. You could increase this to 90 or 95 in forscan if you want to. I think the only side effect of this would be a slightly shortened battery life.

I'm also an android guy! But I've yet to load Lite on my phone because I have it on my laptop.

I'm in North Jersey, Bergen county were are you?
 

Jersey Jim

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BDD, thanks for that great insight of what Forscan & spreadsheet on the laptop shows. I don't think 90-95% will shorten life, but up around 100% detrimental things start to happen. This may just be a safety margin due to the SOC drifting out of calibration. What the mean by "refresh" may be in actuality an "equalize charge". This should be performed on flooded batteries occassionally. This mixes up the electolyte, eliminating stratification in the liquid. It also melts off sulfation from the cell plates, which develops when a battery falls below 50%.

Another possible purpose of what Ford calls a refresh, may be more of a "calibration". This would require the battery being elevated to 100%, the only true reference of where the battery is in it's SOC. To detect this 100%, it's no different of how many chargers for individual cells for tools, phones, etc. use to know when to shut the charger off. At 100%, cell voltage starts to spike abruptly, (with constant current mode). This fully charged characteristic may be the only way the vehicle knows "that a 5 gallon bucket is holding 5 gallons". Then they allow soc to drop to 80%.

So what would it take for me to change my SOC in my truck? Free Forscan on my laptop? Then a "wired" adapter? And a paid license? The Android license for Forscan Lite was only $7, very reasonable. I think when I bought my OBDLink "MX" 5 or 6 years ago (which is discontinued now), For my 03 Expedition, I used a tiny bluetooth dongle plugged into my laptop usb. I wouldn't necessarily need the speed of a wired adapter, as I would just want to change an SOC parameter one time. That 10% increase in SOC would mean an extra 7-amp-hours on my 70 Ah agm battery. That might be enough to handle a long weekend or maybe longer of the drain while parked.

I tried using the "accumulative" PIDs for when engine off, and accumulated charge when engine running, but both values were in the 20's and different from each other, but never changed while observing it running, or shut down for couple minutes. Maybe I didn't give it enough time. There was one for "while sleeping" like you had displayed, but I wasn't sure what their definition of sleeping was. All this was to determine how much Ah discharge occurs for every night, or 24 hours of non-use. That would then be very obvious how long a 55 Ah reserve would hold up. Remember, bad things happen to lead cells once you fall below 50%, and if Ford only allows you to start out wth 79%, then there's an obvious problem.

BTW, Im in Pittsgrove, 6 or so miles from Vineland. Out here we have more deer than houses.
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