Ford and Toyota Both Have Hybrid Truck Engines Now. The Path There Was A Weird One

[Pedaldude]

Nickel-Cadmium or NiCad ≠ Nickel-Metal Hydride or NiMH, though they are similar.

All kidding aside, NiMH cells are still legitimate for today's applications and Toyota has had lots of experience. I believe that the energy density of the Lithium-ion batteries is superior though.

They even have had some hybrid hybrid batteries that use a combination of NiMH and Li-ion cells to get the advantages of both chemistries. I think that the 2021 Prius is one, I don't know if it's two separate battery packs or just one.

NiMH was given a rough ride by a bunch of shady people and never had an honest chance to show its worth in the market:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries

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[Vulnox]

Yeah I don't buy his excuse about their customers and generators for a second. First off, if you are already optioning the hybrid PowerBoost, you absolutely cannot get an inverter generator above 7k watts for less than what Ford charges for the option, full stop. So he is wrong there. Not even the most borderline dangerous budget inverter generators come up at the $700 or whatever it was for me to add the 7.2KW to my F-150. Plus it takes up payload, and the Toyota Tundra hybrids already have even or lower payload to a comparable PowerBoost. So that's a crummy option.

Also as someone noted, that battery in the interior space is so bad for what is supposed to be a clean sheet truck. Toyota seems to have brought something with the power numbers at least, but the 0-60 test on the truck that TFL did didn't seem to be as quick as the PB, or they are probably about even.

I just don't know how their "Chief Engineer" keeps his job by delivering such a sloppy architecture like that. Don't get me wrong, Toyota does a lot of things right and Ford is hardly a saint, but this new Tundra just feels like they went for a flashy exterior (and went a little too far for my taste) but just did bare minimum everywhere else.

 

[Snakebitten]

First, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I have huge respect for Toyota as a manufacturer, but not so much for their creativity. They CAN build a car as reliable as an anvil, but it can have the sex appeal of a refrigerator.

So after that loooonnnnggg wait, they drop their V8 and build a 3.5 Liter Twin Turbo VVT V6 as their halo motor? Hmmmm, very fresh concept. At least now even the Tundra forums and YouTube comments will forever be littered with "if only they would give us the V8" diatribe.

And yea, on top of switching the Tundra to a Toyota Ecoboost ?, they also release a Hybrid with that new motor.

You do realize it takes years from the drawing board to the release of a new product. That implies that Toyota already had knowledge of Ford working on what we now call our Powerboost. But they DIDN'T know about that clever leveraging of the Hybrid hardware to provide a 7.2KW generator. (my opinion) And thus, after it was WAY too late to do the same, they simply got beat.

I don't believe for a second that Toyota asked the various focus groups during design phase "would you be interested in a 7.2KW onboard generator for $750?"
If they did, they would have gotten exactly the answer we expect they would.

Sorry, but that response to that question was completely dishonest. And nobody believed it.

Much like GM no longer talking smack about Ford Aluminum, and we know why, Toyota is likely to offer inverters in their future Hybrid.
I think every manufacturer will, in fact. It's SUCH a great idea that customers will demand it.

 

[Atlee]

Interesting history in the article, seems like the generator is missed opportunity they will see the light on, in the future. Already paying the weight penalty with the battery, add some functionality. Growing up in the 70s-80s, who knew I "needed" GPS in a mobile calling device.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42757...ck-engines-now-the-path-there-was-a-weird-one
"Toyota's Joe Moses said the company's data shows that Tundra buyers tend to be more active-outdoor enthusiast types than the work-truck customer of Ford's F-150, and they're distancing themselves from any similarities. For instance, Toyota’s Chief Engineer for the Tundra Mike Sweers told me they discovered their customers don’t want the extra cost for adding a generator to the truck (like Ford does for its full-size truck). For less money, he said, Toyota’s customers can buy their own generator and use it where and when they want."

That guy is an idiot. The 7.2Kw generator is exactly why I ordered a Power Boost. I am quite tired of moving generators in and out of my truck when boondocking with my TT. Amd also tired of dealing with carrying gasoline to feed those generators.

Also, I will appreciate that 7.2Kw should we lose electricity for a day or more.

Secondarily, the improved gas mileage will just be a bonus when using it around town.

 

[Snakebitten]

That guy is an idiot. The 7.2Kw generator is exactly why I ordered a Power Boost. I am quite tired of moving generators in and out of my truck when boondocking with my TT. Amd also tired of dealing with carrying gasoline to feed those generators.

Also, I will appreciate that 7.2Kw should we lose electricity for a day or more.

Secondarily, the improved gas mileage will just be a bonus when using it around town.

Not to mention that generator he said his customers could just go buy?
We know how much a 7.2 Quiet 7.2KW generator cost, and none of them are as quiet as a Powerboost, especially when the battery isn't being charged!

But how about the WEIGHT of that quiet Yamaha or Honda 72,000 watt generator? We supposed to use up that Tundra disappointing Payload before we even start packing?

I know I sound like I'm piling on, but he could have been a little more honest. Toyota deserves better.

 

[Atlee]

Not to mention that generator he said his customers could just go buy?
We know how much a 7.2 Quiet 7.2KW generator cost, and none of them are as quiet as a Powerboost, especially when the battery isn't being charged!

But how about the WEIGHT of that quiet Yamaha or Honda 72,000 watt generator? We supposed to use up that Tundra disappointing Payload before we even start packing?

I know I sound like I'm piling on, but he could have been a little more honest. Toyota deserves better.

Agreed concerning buying a "7.2Kw generator", especially for $750. And exactly how loud will a 7.2Kw generator be, if a portable generator of that size can be found.

I will be shedding about 200# between the 2 EU2000i Honda generators plus the gasoline need to power them. Sure wouldn't want to use up valuable "real estate" in the bed of the truck, nor precious cargo capacity trying to carry any available "7.2Kw genny and gasoline.

 

[Snakebitten]

My Yamaha is a 3000. It's a sweet inverter and is quiet and portable considering. But.... It's NOT as quiet as my Powerboost idling, much less when the ICE isn't. And although 150lbs might be something to brag about, there's a reason it's on wheels. I'm not lifting it into the bed of a truck.

And as you stated, with gas, it's easily 200lbs of cargo and still less power than 1 bank on the built in Powerboost generator.

I'm an RV full timer, and I travel in yet another RV. (Toy Hauler) The Powerboost is a game changer for me. I'm almost 6 months in and still pinching myself everytime I turn on "ProPower from my FordPass app.

And as someone else stated, the fact it gets better fuel mileage is just icing on the cake.

Again, I have deep respect for Toyota engineering prowess. But currently they still have considerable ground to make up. I hope they go for it.

 

[jcaspar]

I'm guessing the Hybrid was a last minute thing and not being in the que for the HUGE demand for lithium batteries all they could get was nickel-metal hydride battery batteries, and put them under the seat.

Doubt that. The Prius V five seater used NiMH batteries up until it was discontinued in 2017! The 7 seater used LiON due to not enough space for the NiMH. I think they did it to save on cost.

 

[Trukbed]

I call BS. I can name 3 actual Toyota owners, who all wish they had my generator. What a load of wash, that statement is.

3 out of 3 that I talked to so far.

Let me guess, their studies also showed that Tundra buyers still liked 16mpg in an antiquated engine for the last 10 years too, and that's why it's been unchanged, inefficient and behind the times as well, right? Despite the fact that Ram, chevy and Ford have been steadily getting better on MPG year over year.

Toyota just stayed with what they got.

It's nothing but cost savings. Toyota history has been that method from day 1 of Toyota. Only spend what they have to. Penny pinchers. Not that it's a bad thing, but again, the mentality and culture doesn't line up with feeling like spending on innovation and new ideas. It's risky to a company that values conserving over innovation.

Remember, they essentially pioneered and perfected the Just In Time procedure for assembly process. That process is that they only order the parts needed order for order, versus having a large stock. It's mega cost saving.

Like a grandfather form the great depression Era, only spend on what they need. And spending on a generator meant they'd spend more money.

Bottom line, it's BS. ILL BET MY LIFE THE MAJORITY OF TUNDRA OWNERS WOULD lOVE a generator. But Toyota just doesn't see where THEY'D benefit from it.

Again, not a bad thing to save money. But the statement about the customers not wanting it is retarded.

 

[Trukbed]

How many friends did I make from using the word "retarded"? It was just a subtle way of hinting that I am not a Libby. Sometimes I just like to toss the word around to weed out the Ninnies.

 

[Trukbed]

One more thing... Toyota should do their survey in the middle of a regional blackout and see what responses they get from their Tundra owners.

"Nah, we're still good here. We just gonna head up to Lowes and pick us up a $5,000 generator, bring it home, and hook it on up, just like we told u earlier. I firmly still believe I'd rather spend 5 grand for a 400 pound cube that makes 3 times the noise and costs 5 times as much that takes up payload and need a friend around me everytime I need to lift it up. That's all still WAY better than that goofy powerboost gimmick. Because... I am "outdoorsy"."

 

[Snakebitten]

I still think that Toyota simply hadn't thought of it, and had committed to manufacturing before they were aware of Ford's brilliant decision.

I would love to know what day and what meeting in what conference room at Ford did some fella or gal present the idea to leverage that Hybrid gear in this way. I have to believe that there was a moment where it all hinged on someone else in the room saying "I like it. Get me a co$t analysis on the concept"
Ideas like this get shot down in those kinds of meetings all the time.

True innovation. A game changer. Hybrid Pick-up trucks will be expected to have it soon, in my opinion.

 

[Trukbed]

I still think that Toyota simply hadn't thought of it, and had committed to manufacturing before they were aware of Ford's brilliant decision.

I would love to know what day and what meeting in what conference room at Ford did some fella or gal present the idea to leverage that Hybrid gear in this way. I have to believe that there was a moment where it all hinged on someone else in the room saying "I like it. Get me a co$t analysis on the concept"
Ideas like this get shot down in those kinds of meetings all the time.

True innovation. A game changer. Hybrid Pick-up trucks will be expected to have it soon, in my opinion.

The generator was the exact, and only thing that I read, and once the words went into my pupils and my brain registered it, I knew I was going to have this powerboost. Period.

And since May 15 when I got it my power went out 3 times in 3 different storms. Had a switch already installed.

Lit my home up. 3000 sq ft. Used oven, cooked pot pies and watched Hulu comfortably while rest of neighborhood was pitch ass black. Including my Tundra neighbors houses.

 

[Trukbed]

The first is a before. I took a picture of my townhouse alley during blackout. I then opened fordpass, and turned on zone lighting from the app. Didn't move. Opened camera back up and snapped the pic.

The next pictures of me enjoying my night eating my pot pie.

 

[Snakebitten]

Great story because pictures tell it better!
Our grandpa's would call this stuff science fiction. ?

Amazing trucks

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