First Truck - Snow Driving Experience Typical?

[Etl330]

The stock tires on my 24 lariat were garbage. Replaced with Blizzaks and all snow performance problems were solved. My wife even prefers my truck with the blizzaks to her rover with Michelin x ice in the snow.

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[Bryan Simon]

Yeah, my old man used to have a Lexus RX350 with AWD and Blizzaks. Unstoppable. Far more surefooted than the truck so far. Figure it has to be the weight distribution.... and the tires of course.

not just the AWD feature.
Softer springs on the sedans offer some weight transfer on an already decently balanced vehicle..
Softer tires for a better grip (as much as they can)
Skinnier tires add a bit of weight to contact patch and also do not just polish the ice.
Pretty much why I preferred the Plymouth on ice.

growing up in an era where 4x4 was not really the norm, and snow & ice removal was pretty much handled by “It will melt in June”, one tends to figure out their limitations with any vehicle.

 

[Dakar09]

not just the AWD feature.
Softer springs on the sedans offer some weight transfer on an already decently balanced vehicle..
Softer tires for a better grip (as much as they can)
Skinnier tires add a bit of weight to contact patch and also do not just polish the ice.
Pretty much why I preferred the Plymouth on ice.

growing up in an era where 4x4 was not really the norm, and snow & ice removal was pretty much handled by “It will melt in June”, one tends to figure out their limitations with any vehicle.

Since way back when, as soon as we get snow I take my vehicles out to parking lots to see what their dynamics are like in the white stuff. Part fun, part experimentation....but mostly fun. Don't want to figure that out on the road around other vehicles, guard rails, and utility poles.

 

[singleslab5.0]

First truck I've ever owned. Been driving in snow since day 1 with my license so that is nothing new to me for.... too long a time now. But I've always had sedans until now.

Often don't need to venture out much when the roads are snow covered but I did this past weekend and had an "incident" that actually spooked me a bit and I am very very hard to spook even in the snow.

On the expressway, traffic was doing approx 40-45mph. No issues with corners or on ramp acceleration (windy area through mountains). I am cautious and felt that that speed seemed about right. Did have folks passing me maybe 10mph faster.

When time for my exit, I gently squeezed on the brakes well in advance of my exit (ramps tend to be slippery) and was very shocked when the rear end got very squirrely on me. This was a straight brake, no corner or anything, just trying to slow down. ABS started activating in the rear immediately while I got very nervous about the rear end coming around and spinning out. Rear end shimmying side to side. Extremely light brake pedal pressure.

What shocked me so much is that all curves were negotiated prior to the braking with zero issue. Acceleration zero issue. But the braking, which to me is usually zero issue other than making sure you have enough stopping distance, was one of the few times in my life I felt like a car might rotate on me and spin out. The front end seemed to still have traction while the rear clearly did not.

I'm wondering if this is a "problem" in general with trucks. I was well aware of the issues getting moving from a stop because of the light rear end and RWD. That's OK. Either pop in 4x4 or just take my time (I've had a couple RWD BMWs too, so not unfamiliar with that feeling). I also know that if I felt that spooked I was probably going too fast for conditions or the road just at that particular area had a little frost on it or something. That is 100% my responsibility.

But is this normal that during straight braking like that that you can shift so much weight forward that even a slight loss of traction in the rear can quickly make that back end start swaying around on you? I was rather surprised that the truck didn't just engage ABS and track straight, no side-to-side swaying in the rear, like all my sedans have done when I lose some traction during braking. I've never had a back end feel like it was going to come around on me that easily and with such a light brake pedal press. I expected 4 wheel ABS and straight tracking.

I generally have put full winter tires on my sedans. Since I don't generally have to always drive in snow I skipped for the truck but I am now HIGHLY considering it again. I know that will absolutely help.

But is that rear end "action" during braking a thing with pickups generally in slippery conditions? Or did I just happen to hit the perfect bad condition at exactly the time I was hitting the brakes and just a bad situation that isn't really any fault of the truck?

Trying to understand better what I can expect driving a pickup in winter conditions vs a sedan.

As an aside, had an old Corolla before the F150. Other than the FWD and very deep snow (the only time I could get myself stuck), I hate to say it but the Corolla I've found vastly vastly better in winter driving than the truck. Thing was a tank, always knew what the car was doing, very maneuverable, very stable, and it didn't have ABS or stability control. I had FUN with that car in the snow. Just couldn't stop it. I'd hoped a truck might be even better but other than not worrying about deep snow thanks to 4x4 and feeling much safer in the event of a crash... I'd take the Corolla on winter tires every time, hate to say. Truck just seems much less stable and more prone to swing that back end on me.

Tires play a big factor. I had the original Pirelli Scorpion’s and they were not good in snow or wet conditions. I switched to a full snow tire on my 2 door f150. Well worth it.

 

[Hockeymandan13]

Yeah ok. Maybe I need to look into the sandbags thing. Always seemed silly to haul all that weight around but if its safer...

My truck is 4WD.

What tires do you have? Use slippery mode if you have it and use 4wd if your having issues with braking. I know 4wd doesn't necessarily help with turning or braking, but let me explain. Sedans are forgiving of excessive brake pedal use, not mashing it but extra pressure on brakes in a sedan tend to have less effect. Lower weight, center of gravity, and better distribution of said weight also really help with that. Trucks obviously have little weight over the rear axle and the weight is higher up. So if you use a little too much pressure the rears will lock easy and the fronts will slip easier plus the weight will transfer different than a sedan. If you are in 4wd you'll feel the extra drag when you accelerate, the same drag will be there when you brake. Try letting off the gas and letting the drag from the 4wd system slow you for a brief moment before you hit that brake, then roll into the brake. If the roads are bad enough ill even modulate the brakes as I go. If you pay close attention to the brake you'll be able to feel when they are getting ready to slip. If your truck is newer you also need to recognize that the tires on new vehicles are not the best of the best. Get a 3 peak rated tire in the appropriate size and you'll notice a large difference. Add sand bags to the bed and you'll feel a lot more planted. Another point is the feel of a body on frame platform versus a unibody. I have noticed that the unibody tends to give you more feel and notice before its about to lose traction. With a body on frame it tends to be more muted. Gotta pay closer attention to the pedals, steering wheel and seat feel. It will get better with time. I would also recommend taking it to a empty lot with fresh snow and see how much brake and turn you can apply before the front traction goes and then see how much you can throttle on turns before the rear brakes loose. Its entirely possible that you had a one off situation. but learning how to predict and counter various conditions will help you feel better and more confident.

 

[MTMan]

Buy some Nokian’s and don’t look back.

https://na.nokiantyres.com/innovation/research-and-development/fastest-on-ice/fastest-on-ice-2013/

 

[Old Hat]

I had Firestone Winterforce tires on my ZR2 Blazer. Got to work one day and the entire east lot was not plowed. Over axle deep wet snow, but there were tire tracks in it so I dived in.

After a short distance the tracks disappeared, and I quickly bogged down and stalled out in 2nd gear. I thought “Uh-oh, I’m stuck now”. I restarted the motor and put it in first, hoping for the best. It took a lot of throttle and clutch slipping before the wheels finally broke free. The truck dropped a couple of inches and started to crawl forward. It sounded like a great strain on the drivetrain that I vowed to never repeat, but I made it all the way across the lot. The underside was packed tight with snow.

Later I learned it was my buddy with a Ram pickup who had made the initial tracks. “You made it through that?!” he asked in astonishment. He got stuck and had to back out!

 

[JCsTruck]

For the record I have been driving 2WD pickup trucks for decades now and most of them were regular cab with 8-foot beds driven in New England winters and in some very slippery snow covered roads, and I still drive a 2014 F-150 2WD RCLB for work now. With good all season, or all terrain tires, and a little weight in the bed, I have never been stuck or not been able to get to work, and I have never had the back end kick out on me. Armed with this experience, this is why I believe it is the regenerative feature of the power boost that is causing your issue, however I also believe if you use 4WD and or slippery mode that you may not have an issue with traction and the back end wanting to kick out on you.

It’s sort of the same concept as if I tried to apply the parking brake while on the highway and obviously the back end would want to kick out on you. This is what regenerative braking is doing to you in 2 Wheel Dr. mode.

 

[MTMan]

The beauty of heavy vehicles like full-size Fords are they’re pretty forgiving on snow and ice compared to very light vehicles. An average winter tire probably works as well or better on a full size compared to where you would need a premium tire on a light vehicle to try to get close to the same performance.

 

[KartRacer25]

Great thread. my 5.0, 3.73 diff, no 4A, ass end is squirrelly as hell using my right foot to control her. Just tried Slippery mode in 2H and 4H in heavy rain and it hauls ass. Way less throttle punch off the line, shift points change, but gets up and goes, way quicker than if I try without mode. I think braking is less too, didn't lock em up where I usually do it on "Stop" paint to test grip levels. Don't think I even got TC or Stab or ABS to kick in. Will test more.
Got her sideways unintentionally in the Sierras ice and snow a couple weeks ago and hit dirt bank a bit. so was interested in this thread. But yeah truck with empty bed == loose. Love e locker, my old 4.0 Ranger with LSD sucked.
May have to check my ego at the door and experiment with these "intelligent" modes a bit more. Usually only use in deep fine sand dunes or ice. Definitely going to use it in 2H around town in wet from now on.
But yes as said before, weight in back, like gear and fire wood or sand bags helps way more than I expected, better tires (RG) than stock crap firestones I had, SCC z8 low profile cable chains , I have 4 $$, and a winch LOL. Pulled a jeep out of snow back onto trail twice last year (wrong tires on jeep) other 4xe was fine with good tires. Testing and practice in a big empty parking lot full of snow really helps. Like my Dad used to do with us kids back in the New England winters with studded tires.
Also for fun you can turn off traction and stability in 2H and e locker on, to do some drifting without wearing out tires too much.
Also I hate our rear ends, bumps will get it real real wonky. Need traction bars or modern dampened equivalent. Haven't figured out a good fix yet. Or buy a raptor or bronco. $$$
I'm rambling again sorry.

 

[snowcatxx87]

Winter tires are a must. I bomb by everyone driving 50% under the speed limit, and they probably say “look at that truck a$$hole” hahaha

 

[CWW]

Have Michelin X-ICE tires on my PB, no problem. Also putting two patio stones in rear bed helps.

 

[JJLikesIt]

we just got a good dumping of snow. 3-6 feet in areas.
The Dynapro AT2 tires are absolute trash for snow or mud. I can’t stand these things. Great dry highway tire. But that’s it.

 

[ks54703]

Yeah this is exactly what I mean when asking if this whole thing is kinda the nature of the beast with pickup trucks for exactly this reason. Just more balanced front-rear on basically any other type of vehicle.... sedan, SUV, crossover. If your Expedition was much better than your pickup then I think that pretty much answers it since they're very similar vehicles otherwise (though Expedition has independent rear axle, correct?)

Stated earlier it is the RE-GEN that is throwing you off on slippery roads. Drove a 21 XLT 302a PB with OEM tires for 18 months and learned all about the rear tires locking up when letting of the throttle and the PB going into re-gen on icy roads. Now drive a 22 302a XLT 2,7 EB payload package truck with the exact same OEM tires and no rear kick out on icey roads when letting off the throttle.

Check your re-gen settings. you buy all the tires you want. Have a friend the has a E Wrangler and he stated the same thing it will kick out on slippery roads when re-gen engages. He changed setting for some improvement but it is still there.

 

[SAAUZ]

we just got a good dumping of snow. 3-6 feet in areas.
The Dynapro AT2 tires are absolute trash for snow or mud. I can’t stand these things. Great dry highway tire. But that’s it.

Had fun in the snow outside of GTA the last couple of days, my Primacy tires that came with the truck are on its last season, at 4/32. I’ll likely get Defenders as replacement, but had no issues with the Primacy tires in the heavy snow in 4H but they wore down so fast. Honestly, there was so much snow on the highways and streets I barely needed to touch the brakes when slowing down.

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