Do I Keep My Order Now That 3.0L Powerstroke Cancelled?

[Infotroll]

Well said

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[xtraman122]

We all know that the way an engine works is to burn the latent energy of fuel, combined with the correct ratio of air (14.7:1 for "stoich"). So if you need to produce X amount of horsepower to pull a load, you need to burn a certain amount of fuel and air, no matter whether it is a forced-induction Ecoboost engine or a normally-aspirated Coyote. Of course, certain engines are more efficient than others. But generally, a smaller engine operating further up its load curve operates more efficiently than a larger engine that is loping. So a smaller displacement Ecoboost should in theory be more efficient than a larger displacement V8.

I thought we were comparing to the diesel though, which does indeed burn more efficiently than an equivalent gas engine, I thought largely due to the much higher compression.

And while I do agree with the physics and mechanics of your statement, I think when people have the higher torque EcoBoosts they inevitably end up using that torque to just get going faster etc when they’re towing. If you’re comparing the minimum fuel required to move a simple load from point A to point B at a given speed, sure, it won’t need the full power of the engine to do that, and efficiency should play a large part in it. But factor in people trying to get going on the highway or from stop lights and now you might start using a lot more of that power available to you. To take it to an extreme, I’m sure the 3.5 EcoBoost uses more fuel at WOT than the Coyote, hence it being able to overall put out higher torque.

 

[Lippy]

Diesel fuel has a higher latent energy content than gas, especially E10. The reason you need high compression in a Diesel engine is because it’s a compression ignition engine, versus a spark ignition gas engine. So the Diesel engine relies on compression, not a spark, to keep it going.

 

[Infotroll]

Diesel is more efficient in the torque dept. Your thoughts

 

[Lippy]

Diesel engines make more torque for several reasons. The higher energy content of diesel fuel produces a more powerful stroke (PowerStroke ?). I *think* the fact that they don't have a spark ignition system and are therefore unable to time a spark makes them suitable for lower RPM, so engineers optimize diesel design more for low RPMs. Consequently, Diesel engines are normally "undersquare", meaning the stroke is larger than the bore. Undersquare engines produce more torque but don’t rev as high."Oversquare" engines, like a Honda S2000, rev high but don't make much low-end torque. An engine that inherently makes more torque down low, like a diesel, trades off power up high because HP = Torque x RPM/5252 for all engines.

 

[DennisG]

Thanks for the discussion, decided that I'm definitely keeping the order. It is still one of the more solid engines and platforms out there. I'll most likely put an extended service plan on it through Zeigler. Now to keep my fingers crossed on getting it sooner rather than later. Got a scheduled production date of Aug 5th. Now if that doesn't slip I may buy some lottery tickets.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Why would the Powerboost towing MPG be any worse than the Ecoboost? It is an Ecoboost on the highway with a motor assist, which should make the economy slightly better.

Extra weight compared to normal EB. But the EB is terrible too with respect to MPG under heavy towing conditions, far inferior to an equivalent trailer tow using a Superduty diesel. the EB (and PB, which is just an EB plus battery/electric motor) is optimized to get great mileage when NOT using the turbos at all, which is how Ford gets to both claim great MPG and best-in-class towing and horsepower/torque. But the minute you use the later, you are dumping fuel with two turbos to create the torque, and the MPG benefits go right out the window. The theory here is great because even for people who tow, that is generally a secondary use, and most people drive their trucks empty most of the time. However, if towing is a primary use, buying an engine that is designed for efficiency WHILE providing torque (eg diesel) is a better way to go. I was required to jettison the Superduty diesel due to an HOA rule, tried to substitute it with a PB, which get the pulling job done, but at significantly reduced efficiency despite being a lighter truck.

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