Comments post towing trip

[Lugusthedog]

Luges, I heard an interesting comment from an auto field engineer about your Hankooks. He said a large part of the claims about ‘China Bombs’ was the confusion between correlation and causation. Most RV tire failures are with China manufactured tires, yes. But thats because most RVs are sold with China tires, IOW correlation. But as Norris (see above) points out, many RV owners are unaware of weight management. And due to that, most Owners don’t install RV TPMS systems nor do they pay much attention to tire care, which is causation. The engineer’s view was that, if you looked at RVs operated with TPMS across all tire brands, you would see low and comparable failure rates. Which is what you see today with passenger cars, he stated, as TPMS systems are now widely installed. So if you aren’t running with a RV TPMS system, it might be worth doing, no matter which tires you end up with.

Jack

Hi Jack, My comment about Hankooks not inspiring confidence is mostly about my advanced age and knowledge of the tire market. They are not a familiar name to me. and also made in Korea as are flatags. As I mentioned they drove fine so I have no current plans to replace them with a name brand (bridgestone/Michelin) I am familiar with.

My RV tires are westlakes, also a question mark to me but receive as good a rating as anything.

I do run a TPMS system on the RV (TST507), it does add some piece of mind that it can detect an issue on drive days.

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[daemonic3]

Luges, I heard an interesting comment from an auto field engineer about your Hankooks. He said a large part of the claims about ‘China Bombs’ was the confusion between correlation and causation. Most RV tire failures are with China manufactured tires, yes. But thats because most RVs are sold with China tires, IOW correlation. But as Norris (see above) points out, many RV owners are unaware of weight management. And due to that, most Owners don’t install RV TPMS systems nor do they pay much attention to tire care, which is causation. The engineer’s view was that, if you looked at RVs operated with TPMS across all tire brands, you would see low and comparable failure rates. Which is what you see today with passenger cars, he stated, as TPMS systems are now widely installed. So if you aren’t running with a RV TPMS system, it might be worth doing, no matter which tires you end up with.

Jack

Personally I cringe on trailer forums when I see the phrase "china bombs" but I agree on that correlation and what the true data would show. There were only a few US made trailer tires when I was looking (I think goodyear, carlisle and goodrich) and in my size they only had Goodyear Endurance. I upgraded from the Load D stock Westlakes to Load E Goodyear Endurance, and I got a Taskmaster Load E spare. I didn't upgrade because Westlake was made in China I upgraded to get Load E.

Fun story on the RV TPMS:

I had just gotten my trailer TPMS system working reliably over the winter by getting one with a signal repeater at the trailer hitch. My previous one could rarely reach the monitor in my cab. So anyway, pressures have been reliably around 80psi cold, and a little higher running.

I picked up trailer from storage last weekend and psi was all good in the lot, with 12 mile trip to my house. By the time I got on the freeway one tire was showing 70psi. I hoped it was just error, but it then went 67, then 65, and started an alarm and was flashing. I was still on the freeway and figured if I can just get home I can inspect and change it if needed, and have my full air compressor rather than just my 12V one in the truck. Anyway it steadily decreased and I made it home with 40psi on that tire. Perfect! Figured I'd roll onto the Anderson jack, change it, and get it patched or replaced in the morning!

NOPE!! The new equalizer (Moryde CRE3000) I just put on forced the flat tire onto the ground even though I was maxed rolled up onto the jack with my good tire. So I had to call Good Sam (I have roadside) and he used a bottle jack on the axle and changed it for me.

Anyway, now I know I need a bottle jack! Great way to learn this while not under pressure in a dangerous area. I'm ordering one that can lift 6000# (more than enough) and only weighs 8 pounds and will keep it in the trailer.

Point is, if I didn't have the trailer TPMS and was headed out on a long trip I would not have known my tire was dead until it was too late! (not to mention I wouldn't have been able to jack it!)

 

[daemonic3]

My RV tires are westlakes, also a question mark to me but receive as good a rating as anything.

Mine started with Westlakes as stock, but load D. I think that the RV manufacturers keep putting tires that are BARELY rated a tiny bit above the GVWR and when issues happen folks just blame the tires or the country of origin. If mine came with stock Westlake load E's I would not have changed them. I had 4k miles on my Westlakes with zero tire issues. But when we had a bad bearing and axle, I said screw it and upgraded my ENTIRE axle/suspension/tires to be capable way over the GVWR.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

So Terr, was it a Goodyear Endurance that died on you? I ask because what our Lance is riding on. Cause? Car3 to share the bottle Jack link. 8# is quite reasonable.

Just got Good Sam coverage given some Canadian travel plans and their 50% off sale. Glad to hear they answered the phone.

Jack

 

[daemonic3]

Lugus and Terry both: I am assuming your hitch weights were somewhere in the 900-1,000# range when you made those trips. Did you happen to measure your F150’s squat when hooking up...or have some impressions you can offer on that?

These towing reports are some of the best info I see on the forums, thanks for posting them.

Jack

Took me a while but I was finally able to get a measurement on this. I was able to get my tongue under 900# last fall by doing removing some heavier things and only keeping about 1/4 fresh water. That being said, here are my squat measurements (eyeballing where the highest point of the fender was):

Before (unloaded rake):
Rear ~40"
Front ~37.5"

After (with trailer + WDH):
Rear ~38.25"
Front ~38.25"

When I adjusted my WDH from coming from a 4x2 I had only eyeballed that the truck looked level, and the trailer is only 0.5" higher at the tongue (my WDH adjusts are 1.25" increments). I did not expect it to be THIS level though! I guess I got lucky.

I'd like to take my setup back to some scales but closest CAT scales are 1hr away. I used a basic scale station last time and it only gave steer/drive/trailer but I really want to see left/right distribution of my trailer on a more advanced scale. I have the 3900# front and 4150# rear GAWR on my powerboost.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

Thanks for that, Terry. I'd say those numbers worked out well. My trailer weighs about a ton less than yours; it will be interesting - if our damn F150 ever arrives - to see our results. We use to have a CAT scale 10 mins from the house when living in Montana, kinda ironic given how big the state is and how few significant interstate intersections there are. Now we have the same situation you mentioned; it takes a while to get to a scale (and back home) so playing around with weights and WDH adjustments becomes more of a hassle. But I'm convinced it's worth it and, once everything is dialed in, there would be no reason to need the newly announced 'F150 built-in scale' option which will be offered. Thanks again.

Jack

 

[daemonic3]

Thanks for that, Terry. I'd say those numbers worked out well. My trailer weighs about a ton less than yours; it will be interesting - if our damn F150 ever arrives - to see our results. We use to have a CAT scale 10 mins from the house when living in Montana, kinda ironic given how big the state is and how few significant interstate intersections there are. Now we have the same situation you mentioned; it takes a while to get to a scale (and back home) so playing around with weights and WDH adjustments becomes more of a hassle. But I'm convinced it's worth it and, once everything is dialed in, there would be no reason to need the newly announced 'F150 built-in scale' option which will be offered. Thanks again.

Jack

Do you know if it is normal for official CAT scale to be fairly wide open so you can reweigh only one side? The scales I went to in Sac had concrete barriers on each side to force you correctly onto the platform, so I couldn't come back through with only one side anyway.

I wanted to go back through after unhitching to get the exact curb weight of the truck per axle with my shell and whatnot but there were like 4 semis behind me and I didn't have enough time.

I just want to check how much more loaded my right (passenger) side is on my 2800BH. All storage on that thing is on the right side (fridge, pantries, overheads, under bed, outside kitchen) and I have read on forums that some people's right tires have rubbed the floor as the springs flatten. I just fully replaced all my axles and suspension but I still would like to know how uneven my weight may be for future awareness.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

Terry, your reason for wanting to weigh the passenger side specifically is a great example why this is good to do. Scales I've used or seen differ. IME at least one side of most scales are open, sometimes both sides. CAT Scales seem to be widely available and it's kinda a branding thing that their scales have a big yellow sign supported by two tall black pilings straddling the front scale. The CAT pilings block the use of the front scale when weighing only one side, so a curb or barrier on one side means you have to pull up to one piling to straddle the back scale with one side of the RV, and then back onto the scale to straddle either the 2nd or 3rd scale with the other side. Obviously, a hassle. Right now we're planning a return visit to the Grand Canyon NPS on Monday and Google map's sat view suggests that the CAT Scale in Williams, off I-40, has no barriers. So the plan is to stop there and see if we can do a fresh weighing. I think that's the nature of things; phone ahead or stop along a planned route to learn if one will work for side weighings. At least we'll be loaded up and the weights will be representative.

Jack

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