Charging prices and why

[TRP]

New to the EV world and have a Lightning reserved and we are considering a Mach E in the mean time.

Doing some research I noticed that some states charge by the minute instead of per kWh at public charge stations. Why and who does it benefit to charge differently?

Also, found that in TN there is an additional $100 charge on vehicle registration for an EV. I assume it's to offset the gas/road taxes that you wouldn't be paying. Cost of doing business, I guess. Are other states following this plan?

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[shutterbug]

New to the EV world and have a Lightning reserved and we are considering a Mach E in the mean time.

Doing some research I noticed that some states charge by the minute instead of per kWh at public charge stations. Why and who does it benefit to charge differently?

Also, found that in TN there is an additional $100 charge on vehicle registration for an EV. I assume it's to offset the gas/road taxes that you wouldn't be paying. Cost of doing business, I guess. Are other states following this plan?

No, each state is doing it's thing. In AZ VLT for EV is 4% of what it would fo same value ICE. In NJ the is no sales tax on EVs.

 

[TRP]

Well, I certainly don't expect TN to be at the forefront in rewarding EV purchases but $100 on my registration is palatable.

What's the deal on charging prices? kWh vs per min rates

 

[shutterbug]

Well, I certainly don't expect TN to be at the forefront in rewarding EV purchases but $100 on my registration is palatable.

What's the deal on charging prices? kWh vs per min rates

I think some states have laws that prohibit non-utilities from charging by kWh. It's changing but not fast enough.

 

[sotek2345]

I think some states have laws that prohibit non-utilities from charging by kWh. It's changing but not fast enough.

Per minute also discourages people from sitting at and hogging chargers once they are done.

 

[beatle]

Charging by the minute would discourage charging companies from building faster chargers.

Tesla charges per kwh in most localities. Here is a quote from their supercharging FAQ:

• Where possible, owners are billed per kWh (kilowatt-hour), which is the most fair and simple method. In other areas, we bill for the service per minute.
• When billing per minute, there are two tiers to account for changes in charging speeds, called “tier 1” and “tier 2”.
  • Tier 1 applies while cars are charging at or below 60 kW and tier 2 applies while cars are charging above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of tier 2.
  • Tier 1 also applies anytime your vehicle is sharing Supercharger power with another car.

As shutterbug mentioned, there are likely some silly laws that prevent companies from directly charging you per kwh in certain localities. Tesla likely does the "power tiers" to offset this restriction a bit. Hopefully other charging companies institute idle fees as well to prevent people from being lazy and doing a day of shopping while parking at a DCFC, at least until they are prolific enough not to matter.

VA charges an EV tax as well to recoup road fees not paid at the pump with tax collected on gas purchases.

 

[shutterbug]

Per minute also discourages people from sitting at and hogging chargers once they are done.

No it doesn't. What does, is that after you are done charging on EA with either per min or per kWh pricing, you get 10 min grace period and after that it's $0.40 per min idle fee.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Using Electrify America, Ford's charging partner, as an example the rate is $0.31 kWh nation wide.

 

[mwf5888]

In Indiana it is an extra $50 to register a hybrid vehicle (my PowerBoost) and $100 to register a full electric vehicle. Yes, to offset less or no gas tax being paid.

 

[shutterbug]

Using Electrify America, Ford's charging partner, as an example the rate is $0.31 kWh nation wide.

No, it's not. here's an example of Louisiana:

 

[EaglesPDX]

No, it's not. here's an example of Louisiana:

There will be exceptions in a few back waters but EA did announce that it was going to per kWh pricing nationwide everywhere it could and the price per kWh was going to be $0.31 per kWh which is what I pay on EA chargers in OR and WA.

 

[shutterbug]

There will be exceptions in a few back waters but EA did announce that it was going to per kWh pricing nationwide everywhere it could and the price per kWh was going to be $0.31 per kWh which is what I pay on EA chargers in OR and WA.

Key words: everywhere it could. That's roughly half the states. So if you drive from California to Florida. The following states are by min pricing: New Mexico, Louisina, Mississippi, and Alabama. So 4 states charge by kWh and 5 charge by min. When last checked those 5 states are still part of the nation.

 

[Blainestang]

No it doesn't. What does, is that after you are done charging on EA with either per min or per kWh pricing, you get 10 min grace period and after that it's $0.40 per min idle fee.

Right, if "done" meant 100% charged, then yeah, you need an idle fee to push people along.

If "done" meant "enough charge to get to the next stop" then charging by the minute definitely incentivizes moving along once you have enough charge to reach the next stop.

To me, there are pros and cons to both : charging by kWh and by time.

Ultimately, charging by time helps with charging station throughput to incentivize people to only charge as much as they need to, and not sit around charging all the way up... or even up to 80%.

You don't want a Bolt coming in and charging for 2.5 hours at some stupidly low kW rate to get to 100% and ~250 miles of range. Imagine how many miles of range could have been added to Teslas and Mach Es and Etrons and Taycans and such in 20-minute charging increments during that time! Probably 750-1000 miles of range could have been added in the 2.5 hours that the Bolt was sitting there getting just 250 miles of range.

 

[Slappy McGee]

In pretty much every state, utilities are highly regulated, and as a result of that regulation, in many states if you charge for electricity by the kWhr you're "reselling" electricity and thus magically become a utility that the state then wants to regulate as such. As you can imagine, none of the charging companies want to be regulated as a utility, so the workaround is to charge for "connected time" rather than charging for electricity.

This seems goofy, but one of the more fun unintended consequences was that in Charlotte near where I live, municipalities were prohibited from any type of electricity "reselling" and thus all the public chargers were free to use for a while until they revised the rules.

I think we'll see most states revise the rules for EV charging and transition to kWhr, and I think we'll also see more of those extra registration taxes (SC just added one), and THEN we'll see the pols lump "road fees" into the kwHr rates since I've never seen a politician let a taxing opportunity go to waste. A good portion of gas taxes (depending on state) go into the general fund versus directly into road improvements so the political class isn't going to want to see its slush funds disappear without a fight.

Some states are also looking at usage-based fees, where they would either read or capture (through telematics) your driving data and charge by the mile. This seems most "fair" but then raises questions about how you allocate driving across state lines, big brother seeing where I'm driving, etc.

 

[Blainestang]

A good portion of gas taxes (depending on state) go into the general fund versus directly into road improvements

Not to mention that private vehicles do near-zero damage to roads compared to commercial vehicles.

Like you said, it's about finding any excuse to charge taxes... and it makes it easier to add this tax because it seems like EVs are getting an "unfair" break.

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