Blue Cruise vs Lane Keep Assist

[BLoflin]

This system for GPS correction has been around for close to two decades, originally widely deployed for John Deer in order to provide their equipment with enough accuracy to automate farm equipment on very large industrial farms. Differential GPS is used fairly widely, and this is one of the reasons that the truck has to have cell phone service for blue cruise to work. The truck will need to access differential GPS corrections at regular intervals and from local stations in order to correct the regular GPS signals for errors to get the added accuracy.

While the highly accurate GPS will certainly aid Blue Cruise, it will absolutely not be the only system used. The GPS may make a big difference over the current lane centering by enabling the system to coast though exit lane departure lines, on/off ramps and other things that trip up the current system. There is no way that the system could rely solely on GPS. Not only is the accuracy just not there but it would be unable operate under bridges or in tunnels.

Please quote a reference for automated tractor steering via GPS from over 20 years ago.

Yes, GPS has been used in farming, for tracking where the soil was worked, fertilized, planted.

I find references to experiments for automated steering, in 2016 (as an experiment). Besides the clear view of multiple satellites it needed a base station (for signal enhancement and correction) located adjacent to the field. Also the tractor was moving at less than 5mph.

This is far different from thinking an 8ft wide vehicle at 60mph can be auto-steered within a 10 foot lane, by GPS. Not even considering, bridges, tunnels, underpasses, tree cover, and no ground stations in the required area.

Automated vehicle control/steering will continue to rely on GPS for location, but pre-determined mapping, as well as position sensing in the local environment (cameras, radar, lidar), for the foreseeable future.

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[gtotco]

how well do you think these premapped routes account for changing road conditions like construction?

it seems like it’d be hard to keep them updated. in the northeast it seems like there’s constant construction with lane shifts and closures.

I'm no expert on this but I was listening to a recent podcast talking about MobilEye (which is the system Ford uses), and basically the way their HD Mapping system works is that there are constant updates from millions of cars on the road that use MobilEye systems (think like how Google Waze works to identify traffic, but for mapping). Basically as there are changes to the roads that are identified by road users the HD Maps get updated in real time which should provide the maps with update information on information like construction, closed lanes, etc.

http://www.autonocast.com/blog/2021/7/29/231-if-you-can-make-it-in-new-york

EDIT: Also adding this link on the partnership between Ford and MobilEye on the F-150. Apparently it uses the EyeQ4 system, though this was pre-launch so that should probably be confirmed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...de-for-driver-assist-systems/?sh=2051544c38ee

 

[GolfR]

Please quote a reference for automated tractor steering via GPS from over 20 years ago.

Yes, GPS has been used in farming, for tracking where the soil was worked, fertilized, planted.

I find references to experiments for automated steering, in 2016 (as an experiment). Besides the clear view of multiple satellites it needed a base station (for signal enhancement and correction) located adjacent to the field. Also the tractor was moving at less than 5mph.

This is far different from thinking an 8ft wide vehicle at 60mph can be auto-steered within a 10 foot lane, by GPS. Not even considering, bridges, tunnels, underpasses, tree cover, and no ground stations in the required area.

Automated vehicle control/steering will continue to rely on GPS for location, but pre-determined mapping, as well as position sensing in the local environment (cameras, radar, lidar), for the foreseeable future.

I wholly agree with your last statement that it will take a number of sensors to makeBlue Cruise work and that even differential GPS with excellent accuracy wouldn’t be enough.

Per your request, here is a ton of info on the original John Deere system called StarFire from the late 90s. You may be correct that the earlier systems were used for mapping and it was later that the automated control came later. My experience with the system was specifically in post collection enhancing geolocation accuracy of wide area 3D LIDAR mapping.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarFire_(navigation_system)

This system does not need a base station right next to a field. It works by detecting the errors in time of flight due to ionosphere interference, clock jitter, etc and applying those corrections. That said, the most accurate results can be gained by using a close by base station. These networks exist from several commercial providers across the entire US.

 

[GolfR]

Are you saying you need an ATT cell phone contract to use Blue Cruise?

No, but the press releases mentioned that you have to have cell service to use the system. The F150s are connected to the ATT network even if you don’t pay for hotspot service. The truck gets OTA updates, FordPass commands, traffic info, etc over its cell connection.Ford apparently has a deal with ATT to access their network at no added fee to owners. If you want the hotspot, you have to pay extra.

 

[DavidB]

I have a 2021 PB and I too have to pay attention when lane centering is on. If I go over a diagonal railroad track, the truck wanted to turn in the direction of the tracks. Dangerous, I turn it off unless I am going to be highway driving for awhile.

 

[BRDVPRA]

I currently own a Cadillac CT6 with super cruise and have driven the tesla model s and I prefer driving my f150 using lane centering to both. When the system disengages the warning is definitely less obvious but I strap a 1.5 lb wrist weight to the wheel and feel comfortable. I still make sure to pay attention. I totally recommend it.

You put a weight on the wheel so it doesn't bug you about putting your hands on the wheel? Genius!

 

[EVT Tech]

That is correct. You can turn it off and it stays off unit you enable it. It’s done some strange things for example:
- when there isn’t a painted line on each side of the lane it will sometimes want to drive off the side of the road
- when going down the hwy and you approach an exit it sometimes jerks the wheel to try and exit
- sometimes when using the system the road lines may fade and the system cancels out. I’ve had this happen in a turn before so I had to change my britches after this one.

At the end of the day it’s still a good feature. The system currently isn’t intended to be a self driving vehicle until Blue Cruise is released. I tend to use this more than I should because I like the feature but you ALWAYS want to make sure you are prepared and have your hands on the wheel.The system will force you to put your hands on the wheels after 10 seconds or so, if not the truck will come to a stop.

My F150 lane centering system behaves exactly like you described and I was skeptical about the Blue Cruise capabilities based on that behavior. I don't believe that the Blue cruise can be completely operational based on pre-mapped roads. it must also use the cameras as there is temporary construction events that would prohibit a map only system from working properly.

 

[Hellphire]

My F150 lane centering system behaves exactly like you described and I was skeptical about the Blue Cruise capabilities based on that behavior. I don't believe that the Blue cruise can be completely operational based on pre-mapped roads. it must also use the cameras as there is temporary construction events that would prohibit a map only system from working properly.

Blue Cruise will use all of the systems combined. There is a reason it forces the front sensors, and camera package. Those 2 combined with GPS and premapped roads……should make the BlueCruise work.

 

[Lpetters84]

Anyone heard any updates on the actual release date? I’ve been hearing Q3 of this year but no real detail.

 

[minirx7]

So i had a great opportunity to put on about 250kms on my Lariet (it is only a week old, and i been trying to pile on the mileage to break it in, as i am picking my RV in two days)..

This is now my 4th car with lane keep. My 2018 Honda Odyessy with Hondasense. is pure junk.. I dont know why people think so highly of it, as it struggles to keep the van in the lanes unless the lane markings are a foot wide and bright.... Bearly works properly on Ontario highways, but works well in the US.

My 2018 Nissan Leaf SL with pro pilot is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the honda, and follows the lanes like it is on rail. It keeps up well with traffic and overall pretty good.

My 21 F150 - WOW, just wow. It tracks really well, keeps great distance with the cars in front and doesnt accleralte like a dog when it accelerate in stop an go. As others mentioned, tehre are a few occasions where the truck tends to VEER if the lines disappears but overall, you need to pay attention.

Couple of observations:
1. In stop and go, this is the first time i have seen adaptive cruise control AUTO RESUME from fully stop wtihout me pressing anything. In the nissan leaf, or my Infininti QX60, you need to tap resume or hit the gas. In fact whats hilarious is that the F150's auto stop start also triggers when stuck in traffic.
2. So many times on the trip today, i had my HAND ON THE WHEEL and keeps telling me to put my hand on the wheel. its like i literally have to pull the wheel down a bit for it to see that i am holding it. Very strange as my honda/nissan never had this probelm. It is very annoying as it even starts beeping and blinking red while my hand is ON the wheel!

Overall, i am very much impressed. Totally worth it!! best lane keep/adaptive crusie i have ever owned (well until my Model S arrives in a few months).

 

[BlackCloud]

...So many times on the trip today, i had my HAND ON THE WHEEL and keeps telling me to put my hand on the wheel. its like i literally have to pull the wheel down a bit for it to see that i am holding it. ... It is very annoying as it even starts beeping and blinking red while my hand is ON the wheel!

There is no sensor on the steering wheel that can tell if your hand is touching the wheel or not. It only knows your hand is there if you pull on the wheel, and apply some torque to it. So yes, you have to "literally pull the wheel down a bit for it to see that [you] are holding it."

If it does not sense any externally applied torque on the wheel within 15 seconds, it will flash a warning to "Keep your hands on the wheel." I used to just give the wheel a little tug every 10 seconds or so to let it know I was there, but that quickly got old.

Now I find that if I continuously apply a little counter-torque, it always knows I am there, and I never see the warnings. This actually happens quite naturally, as I seldom want to drive right in the center of the lane anyway, which is what the truck is seeking. For example, if I am overtaking a big 18 wheeler on the freeway, I tend to ease a little farther away from the truck. Or, if I see a curve ahead, I tend to pull into the curve earlier than the truck would, and throughout the curve I am closer to the inside line, cutting the corner, so to speak. I typically have one hand near the bottom of the wheel, lightly torquing one way or the other. That is, on long freeway cruises, I never have my hands clutching the wheel at 10 and 2 to ensure it knows I am there. Eventually this becomes very natural and relaxing. The truck is actually doing all the driving, and I am just providing a light indication of my preferences.

I also prefer to have my hand on the wheel just in case a surprise comes along that requires my input. Lane merges, lane splits, exit lane departures, poor or missing or non-standard paint markings, lots of tar repair lines, driving into a glaring sun, heavy rain or puddles, misreading a speed limit sign, etc., all have the potential to cause an erratic reaction by the truck. I have never experienced an erratic reaction that was not easily overridden, but you do have to pay constant attention for a timely reaction.

We are still a ways away from a truly hands-off system. So far, I find it handy to release the wheel completely for up to 15 seconds while I take a bite out of a hamburger, without having to stabilize the wheel with my knees, but that's about as far as I trust it. I am looking forward to what the BlueCruise download will change.

 

[ColoradoHunter]

So i had a great opportunity to put on about 250kms on my Lariet (it is only a week old, and i been trying to pile on the mileage to break it in, as i am picking my RV in two days)..

This is now my 4th car with lane keep. My 2018 Honda Odyessy with Hondasense. is pure junk.. I dont know why people think so highly of it, as it struggles to keep the van in the lanes unless the lane markings are a foot wide and bright.... Bearly works properly on Ontario highways, but works well in the US.

My 2018 Nissan Leaf SL with pro pilot is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the honda, and follows the lanes like it is on rail. It keeps up well with traffic and overall pretty good.

My 21 F150 - WOW, just wow. It tracks really well, keeps great distance with the cars in front and doesnt accleralte like a dog when it accelerate in stop an go. As others mentioned, tehre are a few occasions where the truck tends to VEER if the lines disappears but overall, you need to pay attention.

Couple of observations:
1. In stop and go, this is the first time i have seen adaptive cruise control AUTO RESUME from fully stop wtihout me pressing anything. In the nissan leaf, or my Infininti QX60, you need to tap resume or hit the gas. In fact whats hilarious is that the F150's auto stop start also triggers when stuck in traffic.
2. So many times on the trip today, i had my HAND ON THE WHEEL and keeps telling me to put my hand on the wheel. its like i literally have to pull the wheel down a bit for it to see that i am holding it. Very strange as my honda/nissan never had this probelm. It is very annoying as it even starts beeping and blinking red while my hand is ON the wheel!

Overall, i am very much impressed. Totally worth it!! best lane keep/adaptive crusie i have ever owned (well until my Model S arrives in a few months).

I just put one hand on the spoke at 3 or 9 o'clock and let the weight of my hand and arm on the wheel. It rarely ever gives me a warning. I can even rest my elbow on the arm rest now. Don't put two hands on, I guess they counteract each other and it gives constant warnings.

 

[Slappy McGee]

Anyone heard any updates on the actual release date? I’ve been hearing Q3 of this year but no real detail.

I can't find any updated info on a launch date, other than the initial "Late 2021" which will probably be December 31 at 11:59pm. Everything I've seen is from the launch announcement ~3 months ago, or the recent news that GM is suing Ford since they apparently invented the word "Cruise."

As far as how Blue/Super Cruise work, my understanding is they use "high resolution mapping" which is why only certain roads are supported. Basically, instead of really good maps that humans can read, they're really good maps that the sensors can interpret with radar, ultrasonic, etc. information and other info irrelevant to humans but very helpful to the car. A few companies in this space basically have vehicles with data acquisition sensors (think of a Google Maps car if you've ever seen those) constantly driving the supported roads to update the roads.

The system can still drive without GPS (although likely needs GPS for route calculation, etc.) for the reasons several people have mentioned including lack of accuracy, no GPS in tunnels, etc. There are also interesting emerging concerns about GPS being hacked/disrupted, which is why the EU and Russia now have their own GPS-like services, and China apparently already has a military-only system. My running watch can access GPS, Galileo (EU), and GLONASS (Russia) and basically makes a "best guess" on where you are based on all 3. There's also interesting talk of using smartphones as a strategic positioning backup system but I think that's largely theoretical at this point.

 

[2AActuary]

Anyone heard any updates on the actual release date? I’ve been hearing Q3 of this year but no real detail.

I too had thought I saw Q3 in some article/publication along the way. However, most of everything I see since mid April is saying "2nd half of this year". Given how Ford has done a poor job of communicating, I almost expect for 12/31 to come and go; questions get asked, and then they just say - It should be soon". I obviously hope sooner rather than later as it was part of the buying decision for my Platinum F-150 over the RAM Limited.

 

[Orlando150]

For those interested the online manual now has a section about Blue Cruise / Active Drive Assist: https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...US&bookcode=O132468&VIN=&userMarket=USA&div=f

It goes into how and when it works, how to use it, and the what happens if it can't keep driving for you.

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