Bi-Directional Power possible on Extended Range only?

Blainestang

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A quote from Linda Zhang caught my eye just now:
We ended up with something called Intelligent Backup Power. It uses the Lightning's actual charging port on the side of the truck, where you plug it in to charge, to do bidirectional power transfer with the extended range batteries, turning the truck into a mobile backup generator on wheels for an entire home ecosystem paired with a home inverter."
Why did she specify "with the extended range batteries"?

The official Lightning Tech Specs says the 80A bi-directional charging station is optional on the Standard Range trucks, so I had assumed that meant it would work bi-directionally, and not just be an over-sized single-direction charger for the Standard Range truck (that's limited to 48A anyway).

Has anyone at Ford ever *specifically* said that the Standard Range trucks will have bi-directional charging capabilities, too?

Maybe it's a misunderstanding because the 80A bi-directional charger is standard on the Extended Range trucks, but I'm going to be pretty disappointed if I can't have bi-directional charging on a Standard Range truck.

Source: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43203/the-ford-f-150-lightning-will-be-able-to-charge-other-lightnings
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Blainestang

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Thanks, yeah, that's been my assumption for a while. It's just weird that she would specify "extended range" in this quote. But perhaps it's just because it's *standard* on those.

I hope the Lightning product expert is right! :)
 

jefro

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I think someone on these forums posted the Ford ad where it seemed to say both had that ability. In any case one has power out for at least some power.
 

adoublee

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It is possible that the intelligent home backup will be possible on the SR with purchase of the 80A EVSE, but that V2V only be possible from a ER battery. This could stem from incompatibility with HVDC pack voltages that might be directly connected in V2V. Might be another reason to get ER.

Also - I didn't realize Rivian dropped the V2V capability. They dropped the tank turn party trick as well I believe. Gives Ford an opportunity to present as over-delivering compared to competition. Let's do this Ford!
 

jefro

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Tank turn works on 4 motor but not sure Ford could do it easily with 3.

Not sure I've have a use for it, I'd have to google it to remember how to do it.
 

WestcoastLifer

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I initially understood it to mean the 80A charger would only work for the extended but upon later reflection i misinterpreted and they actually meant it was included in purchase price when you buy the extended....and that you can buy and use for base battery.

What I thought was interesting I noticed they said was extended battery charged faster than base battery when using 80A because built in charger or something.
 

sotek2345

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I initially understood it to mean the 80A charger would only work for the extended but upon later reflection i misinterpreted and they actually meant it was included in purchase price when you buy the extended....and that you can buy and use for base battery.

What I thought was interesting I noticed they said was extended battery charged faster than base battery when using 80A because built in charger or something.
Correct - the SR trucks only have a 9.6kW (40A at 240V) onboard charger (which converts the A/C from the EVSE to DC for the truck battery). That mean they can't take full advantage of the 80A available in the charge station pro. The ER trucks have 2 9.6kW chargers on board in parallel, so 19.6kW or [email protected]

Note, the units are the wall are EVSEs (electric vehicle service equipment) - effectively fancy plugs to connect the A/C in your house to the truck. The charger (converts AC to DC - similar to a brick in a charging cable) is inside the truck.
 

adoublee

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Correct - the SR trucks only have a 9.6kW (40A at 240V) onboard charger (which converts the A/C from the EVSE to DC for the truck battery). That mean they can't take full advantage of the 80A available in the charge station pro. The ER trucks have 2 9.6kW chargers on board in parallel, so 19.6kW or [email protected]
SR actually has 11.3kW of charging or a bit under 48A. It has just one onboard charger and ER has two 40A onboard chargers. But same point you make on limited charge speed of SR on an 80A EVSE.
 

JC688

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Is there any more information available that says the SR version cannot be use as a generator to power the house even if one is to buy and install the 80A charging station? This is the function I am most interested in. $80k to get the ER is a lot.
 

adoublee

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Is there any more information available that says the SR version cannot be use as a generator to power the house even if one is to buy and install the 80A charging station? This is the function I am most interested in. $80k to get the ER is a lot.
No just the opposite. But you not only need to by the 80A charger. You also have to pay some unspecified "activation" charge to open the DR vehicle up to it.

This is not meant to be offensive but it is looking like a person having a problem with the $80k vehicle option is going to have problems with the full cost of installing all the extras needed to make the automatic home backup through the vehicle charge port work. I would be strongly considering installation of a dedicated inlet and means to connect the home to the 240V 7.2kW outlet in the bed. Just have to interlock so panel main is open when inlet breaker is closed, and have a means for easily breaking the N-G bond when powering from truck. Look for a SUCCESSFUL TFL video with hybrid showing this soon.

OPTION UP THE PRO POWER ONBOARD TO 9.6kW NO MATTER WHAT!
 

JC688

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No just the opposite. But you not only need to by the 80A charger. You also have to pay some unspecified "activation" charge to open the DR vehicle up to it.

This is not meant to be offensive but it is looking like a person having a problem with the $80k vehicle option is going to have problems with the full cost of installing all the extras needed to make the automatic home backup through the vehicle charge port work. I would be strongly considering installation of a dedicated inlet and means to connect the home to the 240V 7.2kW outlet in the bed. Just have to interlock so panel main is open when inlet breaker is closed, and have a means for easily breaking the N-G bond when powering from truck. Look for a SUCCESSFUL TFL video with hybrid showing this soon.

OPTION UP THE PRO POWER ONBOARD TO 9.6kW NO MATTER WHAT!
Good technical info, but no need to be judgmental. It’s a work truck, looking at options for my city house and suburban house.
 

adoublee

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Good technical info, but no need to be judgmental. It’s a work truck, looking at options for my city house and suburban house.
In that case, I'll suggest that $80k for a 131kWh home back-up battery is not excessive for a person with at least two houses when comparing to the per kWh cost of products like Telsa Powerwall. A person will probably get more value from the ER and included charger/activation than buying the add-ons to the SR seperately, but pricing for those componentsis not released. Good luck to ya.
 

jazzmanmonty

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In that case, I'll suggest that $80k for a 131kWh home back-up battery is not excessive for a person with at least two houses when comparing to the per kWh cost of products like Telsa Powerwall. A person will probably get more value from the ER and included charger/activation than buying the add-ons to the SR seperately, but pricing for those componentsis not released. Good luck to ya.
Ford stated that the SR battery will take 10 hours to charge regardless if you use the 48A charger or the 80 Amp "PRO" charger that comes with the ER batteries.. its because of the way the batteries are wired. So no aftermarket at home charger will speed up the SR charge time (unless you find someone willing to rig your house with a level 3 charger) But if you're excuse to jump from the $40k Pro to the $80K ER model is only because u want bidirectional power, then just send me all your money because you shouldn't be allowed to have any. Do you know how many gas/diesel/green generators one could buy and install on their home for $40k? hell, you can get a whole solar panel setup for that price or less!
 

adoublee

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Ford stated that the SR battery will take 10 hours to charge regardless if you use the 48A charger or the 80 Amp "PRO" charger that comes with the ER batteries.. its because of the way the batteries are wired.
It's because the onboard charger of the SR is rated for a max of 48A, and ER has two 40A onboard chargers. What's your point?

But if you're excuse to jump from the $40k Pro to the $80K ER model is only because u want bidirectional power, then just send me all your money because you shouldn't be allowed to have any.
Where did you come up with bidirectional power being valued at $40k extra?

hell, you can get a whole solar panel setup for that price or less!
Not with 13kWh of battery included, let alone 131kWh.

I don't think you'll need to worry about me sending a dime your way.
 
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