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Automakers Face A Threat To EV Sales: Slow Charging Times

Wolf Man

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Automakers face a threat to EV sales: Slow charging times
By TOM KRISHER, AP 37 minutes ago


Ford F-150 Lightning Automakers Face A Threat To EV Sales: Slow Charging Times 800
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FILE - In this Thursday, April 22, 2021 file photo, White House climate adviser Gina McCarthy, left, talks with EVgo Chief Executive Officer Cathy Zoi, before the start of an event near an EVgo electric car charging station at Union Station in Washington. If the auto industry is to succeed in its bet that electric vehicles will soon dominate the roads, it will need to overcome a big reason why many people are still avoiding them: Fear of running out of juice between Point A and Point B. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)


DETROIT (AP) — If the auto industry is to succeed in its bet that electric vehicles will soon dominate the roads, it will need to overcome a big reason why many people are still avoiding them: Fear of running out of juice between Point A and Point B.
Automakers have sought to quell those concerns by developing EVs that go farther per charge and fill up faster. Problem is, most public charging stations now fill cars much too slowly, requiring hours — not minutes — to provide enough electricity for an extended trip.

Concerned that such prolonged waits could turn away potential EV buyers and keep them stuck on gas-burning vehicles, automakers are trying to cut charging times to something close to the five or 10 minutes of a conventional gasoline fill-up.
“It’s absolutely the target to get faster and faster,” said Brett Smith, technology director at the Center for Automotive Research, an industry think tank. “It’s not there yet, but it’s one of those things that moves the needle more toward a competitive vehicle for a lot of people, this ability to fast charge.”

The latest generation of EVs, many with ranges around 300 miles per charge, can accept electricity at a much faster rate than previous models could. So fast, in fact, that most charging stations cannot yet accommodate the vehicles’ advanced technology.
It can now require hours to fully charge an electric vehicle because most stations operate on a home-like alternating current. Direct-current fast-charging stations, by contrast, are hours faster. But they can cost tens of thousands of dollars more.

The high cost is something the Biden administration will have to consider as it develops incentives to encourage companies and governments to build 500,000 charging stations nationwide by 2030. Among the possibilities being discussed are grants, with $15 billion in spending over five years to build the network, including fast chargers along highways and in communities. Details are being worked out as the administration negotiates its infrastructure plan with key members of Congress.

Of the roughly 42,000 public charging stations in the United States, only about 5,000 are considered direct-current fast chargers, according to the Department of Energy. The rest are like home chargers; they require roughly eight hours to fully charge longer-range batteries, longer than anyone wants to wait to charge a vehicle on a road trip.

And most fast chargers can pump out only about 50 kilowatts per hour — requiring roughly an hour to charge an average EV to 80% — even though newer EVs are capable of being charged must faster than that.
“It’s one of the big barriers for someone who is not living with a battery-electric vehicle yet,” said Alex Tripi, who head’s Volvo’s electric vehicle marketing. “It will continue to be for a while.”

Limited by technology, early electric vehicles charged at ridiculously low speeds when compared with recent models. When Nissan’s Leaf first went on sale more than a decade ago, for example, it could take in only 50 kilowatts per hour from a fast charger. That meant it took a half hour to charge it to 80% of its small battery, just 58 miles.
A new long-range version released in 2019 nearly tripled the range per charge. Because it can take 100 kilowatts at a fast charger, it can get to 80% — 181 miles — in 45 minutes.

Newer EVs can be charged even faster. But they far exceed the capacity of most fast chargers. Ford’s Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning can take in 150 kilowatts per hour. Hyundai’s Ioniq 5 and Porsche’s Taycan are over 200 kilowatts.

The Hyundai, with 300 miles of range, can go from a 10% charge to 80% in just 18 minutes, much closer to gasoline fill-up times. (Automakers tend to quote charging times to 80% of battery capacity because it takes much longer to go from 80% to 100%; the final 20% is often slowed down to prolong battery life.) Hyundai knows there aren’t many chargers now that can fill the Ioniq that fast. But it says it’s ready for a future when more quick chargers are more widely available.

“Hopefully the infrastructure will improve across the U.S. for this to be a whole lot more viable,” said John Shon, senior manager of product planning.

Tesla, which has its own private charging network of 25,000 plugs worldwide, leads just about every automaker. Its newer chargers can crank out up to 250 kilowatts and 175 miles of range in about 15 minutes.

Electrify America, a charging network funded with money paid by Volkswagen as punishment for its emissions cheating scandal, says it’s ready for the newer EVs. Having installed fast chargers since 2018, it runs more than 600 stations with 2,600 plugs nationwide. All can pump out 150 kilowatts. That means they can charge a typical EV with 300 miles of range to 80 percent of battery capacity (240 miles) in roughly 45 minutes. Electrify America is adding 350 kilowatt stations, which can charge twice as fast.
A fast-charge fill-up to 80% of battery capacity varies by state but typically costs around $16.

Even Tesla owners, who can access the nation’s biggest fast-charging charging network, risk running out of juice on road trips, especially in rural areas. On Monday, one such driver, Dan Nelson, said he had to stop at a Tesla station near Ann Arbor, Michigan, for more than 20 minutes to make sure his Model 3 had enough charge to reach his rural home 25 miles away.

“There’s definitely improvements that can be made,” said Nelson, who charges at home most of the time.
Bruce Westlake, president of the East Michigan Electric Auto Association, suggested that such anxiety tends to ease as people gain more experience with EVs. He said he is now comfortable running his two Teslas as low as 5% of battery capacity to go farther between charges on trips.

Research by J.D. Power and Associates shows that most people think charging stations are needed at locations where gas stations are now. But in fact, according to the Energy Department, most EV owners charge at home more than 80% of the time.
That means super-fast chargers, which can cost close to $100,000, should be built mainly along highways where people are traveling long distances and need to charge quickly, experts say. They also may be needed in urban areas where people live in apartments with no access to a home charger.

It’s far from clear that the automakers can depend on a proliferation of fast chargers across the country to build customer confidence and propel EV sales in the years ahead. The high cost and heavy load on utility grids likely will limit the number of fast chargers to areas where they’re needed for quick fill-ups, said Jessika Trancik, an associate professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who studies EV charging.

“As we’re approaching this transition,” she said, “it’s important to be more strategic than just putting them everywhere.”
Charging companies have time to figure out where to build fast chargers, because it would take more than 17 years to convert the entire U.S. fleet of 279 million passenger vehicles from petroleum to electricity — even if every motorist were willing to make the switch, said Pasquale Romano, CEO of ChargePoint, a charging station company. But the chargers can’t come fast enough for automakers, who want more people to buy their EVs to spread development costs over more vehicles.

Romano says fast chargers will be needed about every 75 miles on roads that connect metro areas, and that the United States should get there in about two years. As more EVs are sold, he said, more stations will be built.

“You don’t want to put all the infrastructure in for 20 years starting with vehicle zero,” Romano said. “This is about the natural organic growth.”, this means the vehicles are getting ahead of the public charging network, which isn’t ready to handle the higher kilowatts that the parade of new vehicles can handle. Experts say there’s time for the chargers to catch up, although they’re far more expensive and will require more investment than slower chargers, and experts say there’s time for the chargers to catch up as long as EV sales don’t take off too fast, and if charging networks are willing to invest in faster systems.

Note: I'm no editor but took the liberty of some minor editing for clarity in the last
paragraph that stood out as I was copying for insertion here. I did not take the time to check entire article. Full unedited version via the link below.

https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-b53446b771166fda14c24d814d1758c9
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bowman07

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Interesting article. Will the FordPass Network charging stations provide fast DC charging, and if so, how fast for an extended-range battery?
 

newF150

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byebyediesel

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I have owned a couple EV cars - first was a hyrid Fusion so ignore that...but we owned a Chevy Bolt for a year, then we bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2019. Honestly the whole charging thing is really not bad but admittedly I am biased from Tesla's network of chargers. Using Tesla as the example, here's what they have done between massive network of charging and tools built into the car for the driver. I drove from Northern CA (east of Sacramento) to Disneyland with the Tesla. We have the AWD long distance version, so at 100% that's about 320miles.... when you use the navigation in the Tesla you see a list of charge locations along your route. You can even set a variety of parameters like how low do you want your battery to go before you charge. There are also some websites that take it a step further that allow you to overlay your battery %, how fast you will drive, how long do you want to stay at a charge station etc. and it will plot your route - including stops - via Googlemaps - and then send it to your car.

Yes it would be nice to see a charge time closer to what we've become used to when we stop at a gas station, but it's not an "all or nothing" discussion.

So back to my example from N-Cal to Disneyland... we stopped 2 times, each time we spent about 10-12 mins max at a charging station. We didn't need to get back to 80% or 100% battery charge - we just needed charged to an amount (with buffer of course) for reaching our next charge.

Pre-Covid I did that drive every year for 8+ years with my family. Taking the Tesla added about 20 minutes each direction - and total charging costs for round trip were about $32.

Meanwhile at home with a 50amp service for our charger, we can do a near 0 to full charge in about 5 1/2 hours so obviously not an issue when thinking about being ready for the next day.

I know this is a bit - a lot - long winded - but really the amount of tools/technology + rapidly expanding charger infrastructure and we are still at least 12-18 months before we see any F150 EV's, this is only going to get better.
 

Texas Dan

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Yes, it includes fast chargers and slower chargers. You can map a route and see what type of chargers are available along the route.
https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/try-the-tech/
That map is pretty useless for route planning. For route planning I would recommend Plugshare or A Better Route Planner (ABRP). ABRP will actually calculate your cars range based on actually weather conditions, elevation changes and charging stop times and show you the fastest route.

I would add that naysayers will always find reasons not to do things and proponents will always try to find a way to make things work. Over the last six years that I have been driving EVs, EV charging has definitely evolved. The first EV I purchased would only add about 60 mph but it looks like the F150 Lighting will be able to add about 320 miles per hour.

If you only look at the charging speed then you are not getting the real picture. With a 300 mile rated range, you will be ready for a stop by the time the F150 needs a charge on a long trip. After a bathroom break and bite to eat the F150 Lightning will have added enough charge to make it to the next charging stop.

I have a home charger but I only plug my EV in maybe once a week. It's definitely a lot less hassle to just plug an EV in as compared to having to fill up a gas car at a gas station. The biggest charging challenge is for people without electricity at night to charge up their cars like people living in apartments.

It's natural for people to be resistant to change. The transition from gas vehicles to EVs is going to be painful for some people especially if they are highly resistant to change but their are benefits. Personally I am enjoying the rewards of EVs and I am never buying another gasoline vehicle.
 
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astricklin

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People need to understand that 99% of their charging will be at home. How often do people drive more than 200 miles in a day? I drive 100 miles round trip for work and I drive is way further than most anyone else I know.
 

newF150

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People need to understand that 99% of their charging will be at home. How often do people drive more than 200 miles in a day? I drive 100 miles round trip for work and I drive is way further than most anyone else I know.
I've had my Mustang Mach E for 3 months and 100% of my charging has been at home.
 

EaglesPDX

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Fear of running out of juice between Point A and Point B.
The headline says charging time while the article says the above.

150kW has been the base for Tesla and that works just fine for travel. Increasing the ability to charge faster doesn't really do much as the charging speed at even the 250kW chargers rarely gets above 150kW due to the usage at the charger, weather, battery, electrical grid issues.

EA provides an excellent travel network for 90% of Americans and it is currently wildly under utilized. Long before EV's start to fill them up, EA and other networks such as EVgo/GM, 7-11, Shell will be building out.

The real issue is the $20k premium for EV's over equivalent ICE vehicles.

That is addressed in new infrastructure bill with increase to $13,500 for US built EV's and restoring credit to GM and Tesla.

Write to your Congressman and Senators if you want the EV tax credit increased and expanded.
 

Brian Head Yankee

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The real issue is the $20k premium for EV's over equivalent ICE vehicles.
You might want to check that $20k premium for a Lightning vs a F150 ICE. The BASE ICE XLT with no options is $43,000. I should add some options to be a fair head to head comparison but you get the idea.

$43 - $13 = $30k MSRP which is one helluva deal
 

EaglesPDX

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$43 - $13 = $30k MSRP which is one helluva deal
It's a corporate model and one should look to Tesla's early claims of a $35k Model 3, they could never do it.

If you look at head to head comparison where there's an EV version of an ICE like Hyundai's Kona EV and ICE, you find a $17k differential. The battery costs are well documented. Until the battery costs come down, that's going to be about it. More battery the higher the differential.

And you can't deduct the Federal or state credits and say that changes the differential cost. That is the purpose of the credits and the $13,500 is, unfortunately not likely to happen, but the $7,500 should apply to 2022 F-150EV's.
 

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newF150

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That map is pretty useless for route planning. For route planning I would recommend Plugshare or A Better Route Planner (ABRP). ABRP will actually calculate your cars range based on actually weather conditions, elevation changes and charging stop times and show you the fastest route.

I would add that naysayers will always find reasons not to do things and proponents will always try to find a way to make things work. Over the last six years that I have been driving EVs, EV charging has definitely evolved. The first EV I purchased would only add about 60 mph but it looks like the F150 Lighting will be able to add about 320 miles per hour.

If you only look at the charging speed then you are not getting the real picture. With a 300 mile rated range, you will be ready for a stop by the time the F150 needs a charge on a long trip. After a bathroom break and bite to eat the F150 Lightning will have added enough charge to make it to the next charging stop.

I have a home charger but I only plug my EV in maybe once a week. It's definitely a lot less hassle to just plug an EV in as compared to having to fill up a gas car at a gas station. The biggest charging challenge is for people without electricity at night to charge up their cars like people living in apartments.

It's natural for people to be resistant to change. The transition from gas vehicles to EVs is going to be painful for some people especially if they are highly resistant to change but their are benefits. Personally I am enjoying the rewards of EVs and I am never buying another gasoline vehicle.
I agree. But the reply was to a specific question from Texas Dan in regards to how many fast chargers are part of the FordPass Charging Network.
 

Blainestang

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150kW has been the base for Tesla and that works just fine for travel.
This is true, BUT the a Model 3 would get about 4 miles/kWh and a F-150 gets about 2 mi/kWh, which means it's more like charging a Model 3 at 75kW. And if you're towing, you're probably getting ~1 mi/kWh and that's like charging a Model 3 at 37kW.

The Lightning could absolutely use faster charging. I don't think it will be a deal-breaker for me, but it's not great.


EA provides an excellent travel network for 90% of Americans and it is currently wildly under utilized. Long before EV's start to fill them up, EA and other networks such as EVgo/GM, 7-11, Shell will be building out.
Agreed. I'm not worried about the network, despite some Tesla superfans' claims that there's no network for anyone else. It probably won't be as seamless as Tesla, but utilization is lower by far, so I'm not worried about a station being full when I get there. (To be fair, I've NEVER waited to charge at a DCFC station, but the Tesla ones are much busier than the CCS ones)


The real issue is the $20k premium for EV's over equivalent ICE vehicles.
There are quite a few EVs where this isn't the case, now.

Taycan is priced lower than Panamera (before credit)
Model 3 is priced lower than 3-series
MINI Cooper SE is priced competitively with Cooper S, and demolishes it after the credit
F-150 Pro SR is way cheaper than a Powerboost XL Supercrew even before the credit
F-150 XLT SR is just a few thousand more than F-150 XLT Powerboost
etc.
 

Blainestang

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It's a corporate model and one should look to Tesla's early claims of a $35k Model 3, they could never do it.
The ~$35k Model 3 was available for 20 months. It was also much better equipped than originally expected.

It didn't come out at launch and for some of the time you had to call or email or go into a Tesla store to get it (like you would for any other brand), but it was available for 20 months.
 


 


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