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Anybody else just get an email from ford saying the lightning is available for order?

JExpedition07

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HA! Don’t get me started on backwards. I am planning on building my first house in the next 2-years and our wonderful New York governer just passed a natural gas ban for new structures. Mind you several people without natural gas heat died this winter in the Christmas blizzard here in buffalo. But yes, let’s ban natural gas. Now I’m in a race against the NY legislatures to get a house up. As of now it goes into effect in 2026.
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tilefordude

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I still say the electric vehicle craze will hit the skids pretty quick.
The governments need the motor fuel tax to fund the infrastructures.
If you aren't buying gas who's going to pay for the roads? The cost of charging will get up there equivalent to gas and then what will we do?
Whats going to happen is they government will send you a bill in the month once a year they will request your vehicles milage and tax you based on that. I'm pretty sure Conneticut is already doing this.
 

JJSnell

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man that would SUCK... they have enough taxes or surcharges now .. dont get me started
Youre in Texas... the business friendly, family loving mecca.... We are moving to Idaho after our daughter grads Highschool. When Wash shutdown during 'Rona.... we drove 10 miles east and every restaurant was open and serving everyone. It was night and day difference. Just today, Fred Meyer gas in WA, $4.26, Maverick in Idaho, $3.48. Not even a full 10 miles between the two.
 

ColoradoHunter

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I'll stick with my powerboost. I use my F-150 as a truck, towing and off-road. No way the Lightning would work for me. The nearest charging to my normal hunting area is 40 miles away. That is the nearest town, so I doubt that will change anytime soon. My powerboost gets about 50% better gas mileage than my 2015 3.5 platty did when offroad. Off road I'm getting double the range from a "tank" than I'd get with the Lightning at it's best range estimates.

The big rush to the lightning is over IMO. Small dealer near me had 3 sitting on the lot last time I went in for service.
 

Snakebitten

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It seems the mad rush had a $cap?

It doesn't matter how much it cost to produce something. If it's not perceived as a good value equation, it's not going to experience sustained demand.

If Ford started building F150 Lightnings EXACTLY to the spec & price as wave #1, and the consumer could buy the one that they most desired, they would still be creating the original excitement.

A 300 mile Pro for ~47K
A 230 mile Pro for $39.9K
750 ftlbs, ProPower onboard, lockable frunk?

Ford F-150 Anybody else just get an email from ford saying the lightning is available for order? 22_frd_f150_spcb_8ft_110a_pro_oxwh_ps34_356x180


They wouldn't be opening up orders yet. They'd be fulfilling reservations.

All just the musings of an old man that thought 3 years ago that someone finally came up with an electric vehicle that he was willing to tip his toes in the EV water.
Turned out to be vapor
Should know better than to believe what sounded too good to be true.
 

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troy12n

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I have zero interest in the lightning or any other full EV vehicle at this point for myself.

BUT... and a big BUT... I own two EV's for my family. My wife has a Kia Niro PHEV and my son has a Kia Soul EV.

The Niro PHEV is great. The plug-in hybrid concept, in general is a great idea and something the American manufacturers are REALLY missing the boat on.

If Ford offered an F-150 PHEV, I would buy it...

Reason? I use my wife's car very often because she works 100% from home now, and I work in the office 3 days a week. I can get to work and back 100% on electric and charge it fully in 7 hours on a regular 120v outlet level 1 charger.

If I could do that on an F-150, I would own it.

Range for around town driving on pure electric and hybrid gas engine for infinite range on gas...

Best of both worlds.

I have no desire to be "range limited" to 300 or so miles on electric only... not yet
 

troy12n

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For the record also, Ford sells a PHEV Escape, and they MAKE a PHEV Explorer... but they don't sell the PHEV Explorer in the US. For some reason...
 

JJSnell

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HA! Don’t get me started on backwards. I am planning on building my first house in the next 2-years and our wonderful New York governer just passed a natural gas ban for new structures. Mind you several people without natural gas heat died this winter in the Christmas blizzard here in buffalo. But yes, let’s ban natural gas. Now I’m in a race against the NY legislatures to get a house up. As of now it goes into effect in 2026.
I'd tell em to lick a boot and plumb it anyway. To go back after the fact and repipe will be a nightmare.
 

HammaMan

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I still say the electric vehicle craze will hit the skids pretty quick.
The governments need the motor fuel tax to fund the infrastructures.
If you aren't buying gas who's going to pay for the roads? The cost of charging will get up there equivalent to gas and then what will we do?
EVs aren't going anywhere but up in adoption. Trips are still a problem as infrastructure sucks, but w/ more taxpayer money being handed out and tesla taking some to modify their chargers, trips will get better -- but most battery tech sucks in the charging realm. Gen 2 will be better batteries and strategies. The shared kia / hyundai platform rocks when it uses its charging conditioning where the car gets all variables lined up to get a ~15% to 80% charge around 15 minutes. That's basically 200 miles range or so in 15 minutes which is some of the best.

The current lighting just can't come anywhere close to that. Updates have improved its charge times. It also has 2 AC compressors on it (HVDC powered) that it can use to cool the batteries and motors when equipped w/ the proper towing package. Towing range still sucks and charging for 45m every 2 hours is just bad. So as a tow vehicle, poo.

Now for an errand runner, EV can't be beat. Hop in, hit start, and you're off. Nothing to worry about in regards to heating up the engine, going easy the first few minutes, etc... You just get in, hit on, put in gear, and go warp speed if you want. My MME driving is very spirited. Sure you get a little less range, but the car just doesn't care. Many of us have been tracking batt life and at 20k miles the battery reports being ~6% degraded, but already has 'spare' capacity walled off for future use if needed so that the battery warranty isn't needed. With ford's batteries, if you have 1 of the cell banks (8-12 of them depending on vehicle) go bad, you can drop the batt and replace the batt cell pack.

If I had a 5.0 mustang and drove it like I drive the MME, I'd get about 9-10 MPG or so. Instead, for the cost of 1 gal gas at $3.25/gallon, I get 185 miles range of 'spirited driving' (which is also what the lighting under other than 'spirited' driving gets). Or if I don't treat the gas pedal like it's a light switch, I'd get closer to 280 miles of range for $3.25 worth of electrons (out the door price, not pre-tax). Maintenance wise -- well it needs tires changed and the motor's trans fluid (not a trans, just fixed ratio) changed every 40k or so. No plugs, filters, trans clutches, etc... The brakes don't even get used unless things are REALLY spirited ;)

I'm building a new 'facility' that will be entirely solar powered, including the EV's usage. I will still, however, happily consume my $0.014 cents / kWh power rate from 11p-7a, every single day of the year -- if any additional power is needed (highly doubtful given solar capacity, but multiday storms can hamper generation). I've got 45kWh worth of batteries already that will take a little charge over-night (while also having all usage at that rate during those hours), while they power things until the solar is online. Solar generation capacity will be between 100 and 140 kWh / day. ACs / heaters will be run liberally as well as charging up vehicles when conditions warrant.

I don't have a long commute and charge at the office about once a week, and that includes a 100 mile trip weekly. The office pays for my charging -- I only use a 40a charger which delivers 10%/hr, but a 50a charger would deliver another 25%, or 25% charge in 2 hours. Never need to hit a charging station -- even a clothes dryer's plug could add 85%, or 210 miles range overnight (10hrs - depends on safe current limits of the wiring / socket)
 
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Snakebitten

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Great post from someone who has an EV. :)

That would be my use of my unrealized dream of the $40K Lightning.
It wouldn't be the only vehicle choice in the barn. I'd still have my beloved Powerboost and Sunny Weekend toys.
But it WOULD be my daily driver!
I'd wring it's little silent neck every day. Lol
And every mile I put on it would be a mile NOT put on my more expensive vehicle(s).

Alas, it was a pipe dream.
 

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EVs aren't going anywhere but up in adoption. Trips are still a problem as infrastructure sucks, but w/ more taxpayer money being handed out and tesla taking some to modify their chargers, trips will get better -- but most battery tech sucks in the charging realm. Gen 2 will be better batteries and strategies. The shared kia / hyundai platform rocks when it uses its charging conditioning where the car gets all variables lined up to get a ~15% to 80% charge around 15 minutes. That's basically 200 miles range or so in 15 minutes which is some of the best.

The current lighting just can't come anywhere close to that. Updates have improved its charge times. It also has 2 AC compressors on it (HVDC powered) that it can use to cool the batteries and motors when equipped w/ the proper towing package. Towing range still sucks and charging for 45m every 2 hours is just bad. So as a tow vehicle, poo.

Now for an errand runner, EV can't be beat. Hop in, hit start, and you're off. Nothing to worry about in regards to heating up the engine, going easy the first few minutes, etc... You just get in, hit on, put in gear, and go warp speed if you want. My MME driving is very spirited. Sure you get a little less range, but the car just doesn't care. Many of us have been tracking batt life and at 20k miles the battery reports being ~6% degraded, but already has 'spare' capacity walled off for future use if needed so that the battery warranty isn't needed. With ford's batteries, if you have 1 of the cell banks (8-12 of them depending on vehicle) go bad, you can drop the batt and replace the batt cell pack.

If I had a 5.0 mustang and drove it like I drive the MME, I'd get about 9-10 MPG or so. Instead, for the cost of 1 gal gas at $3.25/gallon, I get 185 miles range of 'spirited driving' (which is also what the lighting under other than 'spirited' driving gets). Or if I don't treat the gas pedal like it's a light switch, I'd get closer to 280 miles of range for $3.25 worth of electrons (out the door price, not pre-tax). Maintenance wise -- well it needs tires changed and the motor's trans fluid (not a trans, just fixed ratio) changed every 40k or so. No plugs, filters, trans clutches, etc... The brakes don't even get used unless things are REALLY spirited ;)

I'm building a new 'facility' that will be entirely solar powered, including the EV's usage. I will still, however, happily consume my $0.014 cents / kWh power rate from 11p-7a, every single day of the year -- if any additional power is needed (highly doubtful given solar capacity, but multiday storms can hamper generation). I've got 45kWh worth of batteries already that will take a little charge over-night (while also having all usage at that rate during those hours), while they power things until the solar is online. Solar generation capacity will be between 100 and 140 kWh / day. ACs / heaters will be run liberally as well as charging up vehicles when conditions warrant.

I don't have a long commute and charge at the office about once a week, and that includes a 100 mile trip weekly. The office pays for my charging -- I only use a 40a charger which delivers 10%/hr, but a 50a charger would deliver another 25%, or 25% charge in 2 hours. Never need to hit a charging station -- even a clothes dryer's plug could add 85%, or 210 miles range overnight (10hrs - depends on safe current limits of the wiring / socket)
That's well and good but I think you are missing my point. Solar charging and cheap electricity is great. How are you going to contribute to the roads you drive on or the bridges you use?
That's something that needs to be worked out. That other post mentioned a tax bill annually. Or fees at inspection. Where I'm at there is no inspection. Realistically how many people are going to be able to afford a lump sum payment like that?
The system now taxes with each gallon of fuel that is purchased which makes it easier for everyone to pay their share.
I for one wouldn't like getting a bill at the end of the year saying I owe x amount of dollars for the miles I drove. I would much rather pay as I go. Roads and infrastructure are not suddenly going to get cheaper so a system needs to be worked out that makes it better for maintaining everything. That was part of my point that eventually the charging stations are going to be just like gas stations. Expensive. Or at least equivalent to. Maybe even driving the cost of electricity up even more across the board. So your solar is great but how are you going to pay your share for driving on the public roads?

But this is just my opinion.
 

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How are you going to contribute to the roads you drive on or the bridges you use?
Well we all know that there's no such thing as specific govt $ burning. As in all funds are always comingled and used for whatever they want. $ is $ to them (remember when social security was a discrete fund?) As for the 'where's your additional tax contribution?' -- well it's in registration. It varies on value but my annual registration costs are ~500% higher than gas vehicles, which pay ~$25 or so. Now I do have "free" access to express / toll lanes if I pay an additional $50/yr for an AFV tag (some people save hundreds if not thousands for this). EVs are also much more $, which equals additional sales / registration tax. Sales tax is by nature pure $$$ to the govt. They do nothing, and magically receive $.

It doesn't really matter though because funding isn't broken off into specific areas. It's just one giant pot to be burned and excused away however by which ever govt entity controlling it decides.
 

JJSnell

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Great post from someone who has an EV. :)
EVs are dumb.....
(JK, I dont have an EV)

In all honesty I could go one way of the other. My "problem" is that family lives about 320 miles away from me and the last leg through Tacoma is almost always stand still traffic. I cant waste time going somewhere and sitting for (I dont even know how long) 30mins+ ? to recharge somewhere?
Then we go out to the lake place and there is no place to ... well I guess I could make a fast charging station, but... I dunno...

What is the cost of charging one of these things via 220v? I know when I run my hot tub (50amp) my power bill is always higher...... dramatically.

Lastly, with all the talk of B&O stereo, what happens on a hot day, cranking my music and I got AC going? Doesnt that kill the battery faster?
 
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Snakebitten

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Greed?
Even if I stretch the context, I can't see the pricing as greed.
Now the dealerships? Different story.

MSRP on the Lightning turned out to be realistic, in my opinion.
No way could Ford crank out $40-47k Electric F150's. That explains that feeling everyone had that it sounded too good to be true.
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