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Additional technical information on gen 4 5.0L V8?

MJG44

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I built a 5.4 with my lighting. Punched it out to a 5.6 and put in Manley forged pistons, rods etc.
It was a shame they didn't build the 5.4 L motor in the same way as the Cobra terminator.

I miss that truck, but man I went too far with it and became a race truck. Gave me an appreciation for a turn key vehicle instead of a tempermental ex-wife.

Ford F-150 Additional technical information on gen 4 5.0L V8? FB_IMG_1558869412222
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gagliano7

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Always liked those lightnings.
 

Davidwnuc

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thanks for posting all this info. it’s very interesting.
I start telling my son how nerdy he is with his computer stuff and then he reminds me that i’m a nerd about car stuff. He’s right…lol
 

Tinman1227

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Interesting Thread ~ Thanks To All
Make it a great day!
 
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JExpedition07

JExpedition07

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Henfield

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I think its the best "all purpose" engine for the F150. Not the fastest, the 3.5 wins that. Not the most economical the 2.7 just has it beaten there. But I've towed with mine and its great. Best ever mpg 25.8mpg over 500 miles.
 

diambo4life

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By the way this material does confirm our engines have the same sinter forged connecting rods found in the gen 1 Boss 302 RoadRunner engine, that was one of my big questions. Probably part of the reason our motors are good to spin up to 7,000 rpm. For gen 3+ the short block is the same between the Mustang and F-150 with the same pistons. Only the camshafts and intake manifold vary unlike the older coyotes where they were two different engines.
FC0F06FE-41FE-4EDC-8C68-913E378D2E3A.jpeg

But...that's a Gen 3. Gen 4 has different connecting rods (confirmed) and from some quarters, they are weaker (anecdotal) than the Gen 3s from the engine failures we have seen so far from boosted F150s.
 
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JExpedition07

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But...that's a Gen 3. Gen 4 has different connecting rods (confirmed) and from some quarters, they are weaker (anecdotal) than the Gen 3s from the engine failures we have seen so far from boosted F150s.
Yes I covered that on page 2. The flange is smaller, see the side by side picture. That’s likely where alot of the extra 5 HP and 10 TQ comes from for the 4th gen, the old rods likely resulted in some windage losses. They were very beefy for an N/A application.
 
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diambo4life

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Nice. I know in am truck, I am right at the edge of what the rods can handle. It's still nothing to sneeze about. That's roughly 900WHP.
 
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JExpedition07

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Nice. I know in m truck, I am right at the edge of what the rods can handle. It's still nothing to sneeze about. That's roughly 900WHP.
The only way we find out is testing the limits, since Ford isn’t going to tell us what material they use to sinter the rods. The flange size only means so much too, Hemi SRT rods have FAT flanges but blow apart way before a 5.0 mod motor rod. Same with the old 4.6 3V rods, they were heavier than gen 1 5.0 rods by a margin yet blew apart way below the threshold of the original 5.0 rod.

With differing material and sintering processes one lightweight rod can be stronger than the heavier rod next to it. What I find interesting is that the newer 4th gen rod is more expensive (retail) than the previous rod by a few bucks. Could be that it’s just the newer part and that prices will drop as it’s more common. I still haven’t seen the # for the 2024 Mustang despite searching.

In an N/A application heavy rotating components generally suck up power through windage losses. To be honest Ford using the GT-500 rod in the new Dark Horse is mostly a marketing ploy. That heavier rod is way overbuilt for N/A application and isn’t the best suited rod for a high rpm N/A setup. I think they put those in part as well for the upcoming FP-900 SC package (only available for DH). The standard GT is limited to the FP-800 to get warranty. So in part it raised the threshold of maximum power with boost adders. In hindsight maybe was smart for that.
 

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JExpedition07

JExpedition07

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Update: FINALLY.

Ford has released the part #’s for the 2024 Mustang GT. The Mustang has now migrated over to the 2021+ F-150 connecting rod (ML3Z-6200A), so the original 2012 Boss 302 Rod is gone. This new rod we are running is more expensive retail for both platforms than the Boss 302 Rod, so I am very curious the limits on both.

With Ford Performance releasing an FP-800 supercharger package with warranty for the Mustang on top of the FP-700 for the F-150 I think it’s safe to say this rod is not a downgrade from gen 3. That also tells us this rod is good for 8,000 rpm or so, since they are spinning it in the GT to 7,500 RPM stock.

Only way to tell is watching the Mustang guys do their thing. I can tell you the grain is tighter on the new rod (looks to be sintered in a superior manner than the Boss 302 Rod), but the flange is smaller no doubt. We shall see, those guys are all really pushing 1000 HP on the S650 and this con rod is holding on fine.
 
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JExpedition07

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Interesting….FordParts has populated parts specific for a 5.0 hybrid MHT transmission into the parts system for the Mustang GT? No word on any hybrid, and none used in 2024 obviously. But this and a few other parts now comes up in the database for 2024-Future with MHT transmission under the Mustang w/ 5.0. Head scratcher, not even sure what this is and likely just a glitch. Interesting though.
Ford F-150 Additional technical information on gen 4 5.0L V8? IMG_6228
 

Henfield

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Interesting….FordParts has populated parts specific for a 5.0 hybrid MHT transmission into the parts system for the Mustang GT? No word on any hybrid, and none used in 2024 obviously. But this and a few other parts now comes up in the database for 2024-Future with MHT transmission under the Mustang w/ 5.0. Head scratcher, not even sure what this is and likely just a glitch. Interesting though.
IMG_6228.png
Ford some crazy reason (wife blames the fact that I grew up driving stick shifts) a Stick shift Conversion for an F150.....makes me go Hmmm. Probably only 4x2.......Someone with way more $$$ than me will probably do that.
 
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JExpedition07

JExpedition07

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OK I did some searching because I’m intrigued now. Farley was asked if the Mustang coupe will go electric any time soon since the Challenger is now electric. He answered with a resounding “No”. When asked a follow-up if there will be a hybrid version of the V-8 he stated “Yeah that’s a possibility”. I wonder what Ford is cooking up. They’ve previously tested it but didn’t execute it. All I ask is if you put it in the Stang, put her in the one-fiddy too.

https://www.motor1.com/news/683604/ford-ceo-says-no-electric-mustang-yeah-hybrid/amp/
 

Chili

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What's interesting, and I know some will get defensive, but with the S650 Mustang people are wondering why they're down on power, why they're slower and the move was very lateral. And no, the s650 option for option is not heavier in any way that matters.

Yet with the truck, some believe it was a monumental change for the better.

I liked the 20 F150 5.0 3.55 I had, but it was soft down low. Driving with 3 people compared to the acceleration of just one was pretty noticeable in my crew cab. It's much less noticeable with my 3.5 Ecoboost.
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