Additional technical information on gen 4 5.0L V8?

[JExpedition07]

@sbi It’s hard to pin down. Some call it gen 3 still, like an updated gen 3, and some call it gen 4. There are certainly updates from the 2018-2020 version, but a lot also remains the same. For one our throttle body is larger (87mm vs 80mm) and our cams actually have reduced lift from the OG 3rd gen to accommodate more low end torque. Our engine (21+) also is capable of a lot more RPM in stock form. From my understanding the Kevlar belt driven oil pump is safer for high revs, so that is why our engines can redline at 7,000 from the factory instead of 6,000 rpm. We also have a new intake manifold as well. Fords engineers stated they torture tested the 2021+ 5.0L at 1,100 horsepower and the engine passed with flying colors. The old cast oil pump gears were a weak point at high revs, so Ford eliminated that design.

Comparing the 2018-2020 to our 14th gens our engines actually have both more low end torque and more top end horsepower. The 18-20 made 400 lb ft @4500, the 21+ makes 410 lb ft @4250. Power is also up to an even 400 horsepower over the previous 395 of the OG 3rd gens. They accomplished this with the reduced lift on the lobes and allowing ours better induction with the throttle body/ manifold update. We still have the plasma arc transfer cylinder liners which keeps the 307 cubic inch displacement. I have read that the oil control rings are also new.

To be honest with you it’s not easy to find info on either the 3.5 EcoBoost or 5.0 Coyote regarding the updates that were done for the 14th gen F-150.

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[sbi]

Thank you @JExpedition07 for the detailed response.

I am curious, where on the engine can one see what "kind" of an engine it is, like a model number, manufacturing date, etc.
I wonder why it is so hard to find info on the engines. Why wouldn't Ford make them easily available.

 

[dolsen]

Thank you @JExpedition07 for the detailed response.

I am curious, where on the engine can one see what "kind" of an engine it is, like a model number, manufacturing date, etc.
I wonder why it is so hard to find info on the engines. Why wouldn't Ford make them easily available.

Because Ford

 

[JExpedition07]

So I was bored yesterday and did some deep dives on Ford Parts. Our pistons as well as piston rings, as well as connecting rods are different part #s than the 2020 and previous engines. 21+ F-150 actually have the most expensive connecting rods and pistons from Ford, costing more than the current Mustang parts. Found that interesting.

2021+ F-150 5.0L ONLY:

Piston - ML3Z6108Z
Connecting Rod - ML3Z6200A
Piston Ring - ML3Z6148A

2020 and older F-150 (All 5.0L Mustang and F-150) as well CURRENT Mustang:

Piston - JR3Z6108A
Connecting Rod - CR3Z6200B
Piston Ring - JR3Z6148B

It could also be argued that these updated parts are the reason why we don’t have the oil-burning issues the older trucks have. Obviously I can’t prove that, but the issue has pretty much disappeared from forums after 2021 release.

 

[Mtnman1]

https://cararac.com/blog/ford-1-5-ecoboost-dragon-engine-problems-durability.html

As long as there have been no complaints from the 1.5L 3cyl Ecoboost about reliability due to cylinder deactivation (similar system), I think we can be pretty confident in the 5.0s CD, aside from maybe a slight delay in power on rair occasion.

Id think 2.5 liters for a truck vs 1 liter for a bronco sport seems about right. Time will tell.

The 2.3 eco has had it sinve 2019, if not earlier. I havent heard of any issues.

 

[dmac]

The 2.3 eco has had it sinve 2019, if not earlier. I havent heard of any issues.

Could you provide a source for that? Ive never heard or seen that. I know the bronco 2.3 doesnt have CD or people with aftermarket exhausts would complain.

 

[JExpedition07]

Could you provide a source for that? Ive never heard or seen that. I know the bronco 2.3 doesnt have CD or people with aftermarket exhausts would complain.

I believe it’s only the 1.5L 3 banger running the system.

 

[Henfield]

Interesting power and torque curves.

Seems there is nothing to benefit from getting much higher than 4500rpm. But it certainly does pull to 6k.....

 

[JExpedition07]

Interesting power and torque curves.

Seems there is nothing to benefit from getting much higher than 4500rpm. But it certainly does pull to 6k.....

Torque falls off but horsepower still climbs so you are still moving faster the higher you go. About 40 extra horsepower from 4,500-6,000 rpm. At the end of the day horsepower rating is the actual work the motor is doing so it’s a bit more important for propelling you than torque. That’s why boat engines advertise horsepower and not torque, when wide open pulling torque is a pretty meaningless number.

 

[JExpedition07]

The 5.0L is an entire generation of metallurgy technology ahead of all the other Ford powertrains. PTWA (Plasma Transfer Wire Arc) cylinder liners were piloted in 2016 for the Shelby GT-350 where Ford brought the process in house. Plasma “spray-bores” are both harder than the traditional cast sleeves used in the rest of the F-150 powertrains, but also hold oil onto the cylinder wall much more effectively reducing parasitic/pumping losses. It also cuts about 6 pounds of unnecessary weight from the engine block. Ford has patented this process and now has licensed it to Nissan for use in the GTR.

Fords pilot engines yielded no wear in 200k miles of testing, in 2018 this brand new technology was migrated over to the 5.0 V8 from the Shelby engines creating a newer and lighter yet stronger cylinder wall. There were some growing pains in the beginning learning how to get the right oil control rings so that the heavily oil coated wall did not overwhelm the ring and roll into the combustion chamber, but ultimately Ford has figured that out and had created a superior lightweight cylinder wall compared to the now “dated” sleeved liners used on almost all other internal combustion engines. Here is a great read.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1601-shelby-block-tech-fords-plasma-transfer-wire-arc/amp/

 

[JExpedition07]

With a different part # for the connecting rod for the 2021+ F-150 5.0L engine from the Boss 302 I was curious the difference. It appears the 21+ truck version is a hybrid between the Boss 302 and gen 1 rods with the flange being 1/8”. The flange on the gen 1 Coyote rode is about 1/16”. The flange on the Boss rod is slightly over 1/8”. Our F-150 rod is on the right, Boss 302 on the left. Ours are probably good for 750 horsepower or so, and definitely beefier than the gen 1 Coyote rod (which you’ll see later) but slightly less beefy than the Boss. As for the measured pics, first pic is the gen 1 rod, second pic is the 21+ F-150 rod, last is the Boss.

 

[TXGREEK]

Pardon my ignorance, so what "gen" do I have in my 2021 F-150, 3 or 4?

And yes, joining @OP, I would love to have some more detailed info about this engine. The material above is for the previous generation I believe.

21-23= Gen4

 

[JExpedition07]

I have been watching to find the part # for the 2024 GT rod to see if it’s the same as before or matches the F-150 for its own 4th gen, but Ford still will not release that info on the parts site (even though many have all ready sold and are driving around), we should know shortly. Rods are a delicate balance, too heavy and you have windage losses and then they become not so good for sustained high revs. Too light and well, they are too light duty. No Coyote rod has ever been accused of being ‘too light duty’. Even those skinny looking gen1 rods above hold together well past 600 horsepower. In fact those “skinny” gen 1 rods outperform the old 4.6/5.4 rods big time. It’s very possible they gained a few horsepower in ditching the Boss rods alone. Ford found 8 horsepower in the GT in 2012 by eliminating the oil squirters. The F-150 has retained the oil squirters through the entire run however, due to the heat involved with towing.

 

[MJG44]

I once had an 01 Lightning. Those 5.4s were throwing rods and venting blocks often on the forums. Stock boost or a pulley/mild tune could punch a hole through the block with ease using those powderforged rods. We were talking 400 rwhp or less.

 

[JExpedition07]

The 5.4 has unique issues with the marathon 4.2” stroke. Piston speed gets crazy fast traveling all that extra distance for a same given given rpm compared to an engine that uses more bore (like the 5.0) to make up its cubic inches displacement, the 5.0 bore is larger at 3.66”, 5.4 is actually a smaller piston at just 3.55” bore. It’s actually crazy how small the 5.4 GT-500 rods were, but what we can’t see it the formula of the steel ford used to sinter them. A rod that “looks” weak doesn’t mean it is. I’m sure the GT-500 wasn’t running a weak rod since they don’t really ever break. Here is a 5.4L GT-500 rod, doesn’t look like much.

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