Sponsored

10800 lbs to Utah a full report (towing 27' sandsport toy hauler with 3.5L PowerBoost)

Samson16

Well-known member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Orlando, FL.
Vehicles
'22 F-150 XLT Powerboost Super Crew 4x4
Occupation
Aviation systems
So the gauge doesnt start to move intil 235. I was going up a steep grade and pinned it to see if I could get the truck hot and it definetly will get hot. I didnt want to over heat, just see where the needle would move. I dont think the temp gauge was ever a problem. My cluster doesnt show me a temp reading. just the gauge.
Gotcha, and when you say start to move you mean off of midscale correct? Because it does move from cold to midscale after running a bit. When you pinned it did it still pull strong with nearly 11,000lbs. in tow?
Sponsored

 
OP
OP

Blueonblue

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Mar 31, 2023
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
86
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
2023 F150 XLT Powerboost
Occupation
IT Contractor
Gotcha, and when you say start to move you mean off of midscale correct? Because it does move from cold to midscale after running a bit. When you pinned it did it still pull strong with nearly 11,000lbs. in tow?
Yea moving off the mid line. Power is not an issue at all. Truck pulls strong no problem. On ramps, grades etc. No problem. Just gets hot if you're on it for too long and making a bunch of boost.
 

Samson16

Well-known member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Orlando, FL.
Vehicles
'22 F-150 XLT Powerboost Super Crew 4x4
Occupation
Aviation systems
Yea moving off the mid line. Power is not an issue at all. Truck pulls strong no problem. On ramps, grades etc. No problem. Just gets hot if you're on it for too long and making a bunch of boost.
Thank you so much for sharing that info.

What we need is an Air conditioning expert to plumb in an additional AC compressor and evaporator coil for engine cooling. Switch operated for heavy load conditions. Power we have and it's cooling we need. The management systems won't care as long as the engine temp stays within operating limits. The more I think about it, the more I think it can work. :unsure:
 
OP
OP

Blueonblue

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Mar 31, 2023
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
86
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
2023 F150 XLT Powerboost
Occupation
IT Contractor
Thank you so much for sharing that info.

What we need is an Air conditioning expert to plumb in an additional AC compressor and evaporator coil for engine cooling. Switch operated for heavy load conditions. Power we have and it's cooling we need. The management systems won't care as long as the engine temp stays within operating limits. The more I think about it, the more I think it can work. :unsure:
Unfortinatly thermodynamics get in your way. In order to have an AC unit cool anything there has to be energy generated for heat removal. Air conditioners dont cool air, they remove heat, that requires a ton of energy, and the best AC unit on the planet doesnt hold a candle to a twin turbo V6. This is why you turn off your AC when you climb, which doesnt really matter with the Powerboost because the AC compressor is electronic. An additional AC compressor and evap would make the engine hotter.

Most anything will overheat at full throttle and 100% load. You really dont want to drive anything full throttle at 100% load for too long. Just slow down on your grades and use your 10 speeds ratios. Truck finds a happy place in 6th gear around 3000RPM. It will pull up anything. There is nothing wrong with pulling a grade at 45 mph with your hazards on. Its way better than burning up your $70k truck because youre in a hurry.
 

Samson16

Well-known member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Orlando, FL.
Vehicles
'22 F-150 XLT Powerboost Super Crew 4x4
Occupation
Aviation systems
You're right of course, but another DC powered AC compressor wouldn't load the ICE more than the cooling it provides. Similar to the current AC unit that doesn't need to be turned off as you mentioned. My thoughts are only concerning the PB platform. Heck I could mount a mini-split in the bed and not bother the ICE much lol.

I believe it already has a small version of what I'm describing on the low temp circuit for the electronics cooling.
 

Sponsored

Samson16

Well-known member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Orlando, FL.
Vehicles
'22 F-150 XLT Powerboost Super Crew 4x4
Occupation
Aviation systems
I think what I’m trying to understand is will the 5.0 run out of pull before it overheats while the 3.5PB overheats before it runs out of pull?
 

HammaMan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,464
Reaction score
4,598
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 302a PB, Mach E GTPE
I think what I’m trying to understand is will the 5.0 run out of pull before it overheats while the 3.5PB overheats before it runs out of pull?
Curious how much heat the water cooled turbo bearings add into the system.
 

Snakebitten

Well-known member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
9,035
Reaction score
16,329
Location
Coastal Texas
Vehicles
2022 F150 KingRanch Powerboost
It's a trademark of the 3.5 Ecoboost since it's release. The threshold for shedding heat did increase with the changes made in 2015 to the cooling stack. (aluminum body year) And got a little better yet when the 2nd generation 3.5 released and was soon packaged with the 10r80. (2017/2018)

But there's nothing that anyone has been able to come up with that would allow a long sustained high load boosted pull in high ambients.
Or put another way, the fellas that are towing RV's up the well known grades in the summer ambients have to let up on the speeds and lock out the higher gears or the truck will go into limp mode. (to protect itself)

There's a massive thread that's many years active and has some amazing efforts documented. And you can indeed improve on the oem radiator, oil cooling, transmission cooling,... Etc. You can extend the amount of time before you have to back off. But I don't think anyone has been able to come up with a way to shed the amount of heat that a 3.5 Ecoboost is capable of dumping into the engine coolant.

I don't look at that fact as a fail. Rather I consider the 3.5 Ecoboost as a motor that can safely and reliably produce more temporary power than it can longterm cool. When you really need it, Ford made it available. But it's for a sprint, not a marathon.
 

HammaMan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,464
Reaction score
4,598
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 302a PB, Mach E GTPE
Nothing a few gallons of distilled water with a small spray nozzle couldn't mitigate. I've seen a little water mist system on an intercooler drop IATs by 40% (as in sprayed on the exterior of the intercooler, not added to the intake air itself)
 

Snakebitten

Well-known member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
9,035
Reaction score
16,329
Location
Coastal Texas
Vehicles
2022 F150 KingRanch Powerboost
I can't find the picture(s) showing Toyotas new Tundra (3.5 "Ecoboost) and it's frontal area with grills removed. The view of the complete cooling stack is very revealing. Actually impressive when compared to the Ford.
I wonder if it's as effective as it looks like it should be?
 

Sponsored


OP
OP

Blueonblue

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Mar 31, 2023
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
86
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
2023 F150 XLT Powerboost
Occupation
IT Contractor
I dont think the heat is a big problem if you are drivng within performance margins. If you want to tow the Cajon pass or Beaver junction at 70MPH with 10K lbs this is the wrong truck definetly.

The 5.0 will not do it either. Im my opinion the 3.5 is a superior engine to the 5.0 all day long for doing truck things (I know ill start a war with that one). Contrary to popular belief the 5.0 truck engine is a very different engine than the mustang engine. Different Cams, manifolds, oil pumps. Its not really a truck engine and the low end of the 3.5 puts the 5.0 to shame.

The big issue with turbos is always heat. To counter that the ford engineers run these ecoboosts rich to keep EGTs down. I saw 1700 degree EGTs pulling the big passes. Thats a number that would make most super duty owners cringe. With water flowing through the turbos it dumps all that heat into your coolant in a hurry. My 2.7 was always getting hot even towing a utility trailer with the SXS on it.

Per adding some kind of cooling device to the truck youre looking at diminished returns, Water tanks, sprayers etc. Its asking for trouble while your sensors will read cooler temps there are parts of the engine (like the valves, turbo seals and turbines, Cats, pistons) that do not benifit in any way from lower coolant temps. EGT is your magic number and only way you lower EGTs is more fuel. And while we all wish these trucks got 20 MPG towing there is a reason we see single digits with a load. Lots of fuel to keep EGTs down so you arent replacing turbos every season.

-Edit-
Again ill say. Ill pull every grade in the country with flashers on at 45 mph in 5-6th gear then try to to risk my familys safety and engine logevity just so I can try to win a dick measuring contest with a Peterbuilt up a grade. Spin the ecoboost up at about 8PSi and your getting up any grade in the US.
 

HammaMan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,464
Reaction score
4,598
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 302a PB, Mach E GTPE
Per adding some kind of cooling device to the truck youre looking at diminished returns, Water tanks, sprayers etc. Its asking for trouble while your sensors will read cooler temps there are parts of the engine (like the valves, turbo seals and turbines, Cats, pistons) that do not benifit in any way from lower coolant temps. EGT is your magic number and only way you lower EGTs is more fuel. And while we all wish these trucks got 20 MPG towing there is a reason we see single digits with a load. Lots of fuel to keep EGTs down so you arent replacing turbos every season.
Water misting the rad increases its efficiency. It's neither 'fooling' nor voodoo -- it simply allows more heat to be removed from the coolant. The truck would be none the wiser that it's getting a bump in cooling capacity via water or a larger rad. The issue is heat transfer -- the ability for the cooling system to remove heat from the components it cools. There isn't a "yeah, but" to go along with it. The engine and trans temp are a function of the cooling system's ability to transfer it to the atmosphere -- and cooling down the coolant will cool down the components on its loop thus removing heat from the components.

The computer limits on engine (coolant) and trans temps overwhelmingly. Allowing them to receive increased cooling would preserve performance. The trans in specific seems to need the help more than the motor itself.

The 3.5 has a single EGT probe whereas the 3.0 diesel has 4 indicating ford has no concerns over the EGT temps. It's the excessively rich mix that eats into all of the EBs mileage under load. Curious what a little hydrogen injection would do under the circumstances. Get a little more combustion completed while consuming some of the free oxygen and getting the fuel system to lean out a little bit.
 

Samson16

Well-known member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Orlando, FL.
Vehicles
'22 F-150 XLT Powerboost Super Crew 4x4
Occupation
Aviation systems
I'm a newbie to full size trucks and towing apart from the occasional rental so I very much appreciate the education. Thank you.
 

Snakebitten

Well-known member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
9,035
Reaction score
16,329
Location
Coastal Texas
Vehicles
2022 F150 KingRanch Powerboost
No argument that sprayin water on the radiator and the Intercooler would extract considerably more heat from the cooling stack.

But I'm waiting for the manufacturer to equip the truck with the necessary apparatus. 😁

Just messing with ya.

For me personally, I will just let up off the accelerator and witness almost instantly the coolant temps drop and accept the physics involved. Afterall, I spent years in 7.3 Powerstrokes with 225HP/550 ftlbs and the noise and the 16 quarts of oil and the....... Because that's the only kind of truck that could......

When not towing, you just lived with the compromises of the big dog. :)

Today? I ride in silence, literally, and smooth luxurious comfort, with nearly double the HP and 570 ft lbs torque. It's not something that I ever would have believed was possible.

Note that I'm not comparing towing heavy. And if they still made pre-egr/Def diesel SuperDutys, ummmm I don't think I could resist.
 

HammaMan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,464
Reaction score
4,598
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 302a PB, Mach E GTPE
No argument that sprayin water on the radiator and the Intercooler would extract considerably more heat from the cooling stack.

But I'm waiting for the manufacturer to equip the truck with the necessary apparatus. 😁
Yeah, it's such a niche issue in very specific situations, often involving exceeding the 'large vehicle' speed limits. Some people want to maintain 70 mph up hill in the desert with 8 tons of mass (guilty). Amazing that simply going the speed from the dark evil govt mandated times of 55 mph, makes it all go away. People often forget the days of extreme motor vehicle tyranny when 55 was the federal mandated max speed. Now you can get pulled over for doing 80 due to obstructing traffic :ROFLMAO:
Sponsored

 
 




Top