10,000 mile oil changes, really?

[F-150 Prius]

I always change the oil of any engine shortly after I get it. Including brand new. I don't know when the engine was assembled, I don't know what manufacturing leftovers might be in the oil, I learn my way around the object/engine in question a little bit, and I know what is in it and when it went in.

I changed the oil on my truck at something like 250 miles.

I've changed small engines (generator, lawnmower) after 20 minutes of running and got a bunch of metal shavings off the magnetic drain plug and out of the pan. Now, I'm sure the automakers do a better job, but...it's a damn $50k-$70k truck probably, I am more than happy to spend $35 changing the oil and filter right away.

An early change is fine for lawnmowers, but not for modern vehicles these days.
Even small portable engines have emissions limits now, and manufacturers like Honda build pretty tight engines for things like generators and lawnmowers – not the tolerances of a vehicle engine, but much better than the belching 2-strokes of old.
If you're worried about a modern vehicle engine, get an oil analysis. You'll find the assembly includes break-in chemicals on mating surfaces and in the oil that should remain there till the break-in / run-in period is completed (say 2500 miles … I think Ford says the PowerBoost engine will continue to use engine for the first 5000 miles.)
My PowerBoost has a pretty easy life and I'll change it at 10,000 miles. It stopped using oil somewhere between 5000 and 8000 miles, so I don't have any cause for concern.
https://www.google.com/search?q=engine+oil+analysis+of+powerboost
example at 6000 miles:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Understanding-Engine-combined.pdf

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[blkZ28spt]

An early change is fine for lawnmowers, but not for modern vehicles these days.
Even small portable engines have emissions limits now, and manufacturers like Honda build pretty tight engines for things like generators and lawnmowers – not the tolerances of a vehicle engine, but much better than the belching 2-strokes of old.
If you're worried about a modern vehicle engine, get an oil analysis. You'll find the assembly includes break-in chemicals on mating surfaces and in the oil that should remain there till the break-in / run-in period is completed (say 2500 miles … I think Ford says the PowerBoost engine will continue to use engine for the first 5000 miles.)
My PowerBoost has a pretty easy life and I'll change it at 10,000 miles. It stopped using oil somewhere between 5000 and 8000 miles, so I don't have any cause for concern.
https://www.google.com/search?q=engine+oil+analysis+of+powerboost
example at 6000 miles:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Understanding-Engine-combined.

Ford uses "break in oil"? Where do you find that info?

 

[F-150 Prius]

Ford uses "break in oil"? Where do you find that info?

That's a poorly worded sentence on my part: "assembly includes break-in chemicals on mating surfaces" … and end up in the oil. I have no inside info from Ford. Porsche for example requires reduced max rpm (4200) and the usual no-lugging, avoiding sustained steady rpm (avoid cruise control) which is about all I'd suggest for the PowerBoost.

 

[blkZ28spt]

That's a poorly worded sentence on my part: "assembly includes break-in chemicals on mating surfaces" … and end up in the oil. I have no inside info from Ford. Porsche for example requires reduced max rpm (4200) and the usual no-lugging, avoiding sustained steady rpm (avoid cruise control) which is about all I'd suggest for the PowerBoost.

Would/dose changing the oil effect this? Seems to me it would only matter if those break-in chemicals were intended to be removed from their initial surfaces by the oil, and circulate within the oil, continuing to do their thing whilst circulating (and not getting trapped by oil filter). Effectively creating a break-in oil I guess. My guess would be thsoe chemicals only do their thing for as long as they remain in their initially applied location?

 

[2021Platinum]

I average around 30K miles a year. I get an oil analysis at every oil change. Cheap insurance if there‘s ever an issue. It also turned out to be great info to give to the buyer that helped with the sale. You’d be surprised how much further you can go past the oil reminder. I think doing an oil analysis at the recommended reminder is still cheaper than just changing the oil every 5K & you have the report to back it up.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I average around 30K miles a year. I get an oil analysis at every oil change. Cheap insurance if there‘s ever an issue. It also turned out to be great info to give to the buyer that helped with the sale. You’d be surprised how much further you can go past the oil reminder. I think doing an oil analysis at the recommended reminder is still cheaper than just changing the oil every 5K & you have the report to back it up.

I've heard/seen the same with Porsche engine builders (turbo and NA) in the context of performance and reliability for competition, but I don't have any experience with EcoBoost/PowerBoost (obviously very different designs.) There's certainly a lot of Blackstone and other EOA reports on forums where pro engine builders talk about how they think about lubrication.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Would/dose changing the oil effect this? Seems to me it would only matter if those break-in chemicals were intended to be removed from their initial surfaces by the oil, and circulate within the oil, continuing to do their thing whilst circulating (and not getting trapped by oil filter). Effectively creating a break-in oil I guess. My guess would be thsoe chemicals only do their thing for as long as they remain in their initially applied location?

I don't pretend to know the answer. I don't think that assembly lube is meant to alter the oil as a break-in oil as it disperses throughout the engine. I do think manufacturers expect the engine to be serviced according to the schedule – not sooner, not later.
Break-in lubes work where they're applied for the necessary work to run the bearing in (or seat the cams or set the rings in the bore.) As I understand it, break-in oil (not that I know if/what Ford does to build and run in an engine before it even goes into the vehicle) will alter viscosity to work on bearing surfaces (and ring/bore) to cause those surfaces to mate and result in lower friction (and higher compression with less blow-by.) All that chemistry is not my expertise and it's such a complex system of lubricants and metals that I don't think there's any way to improve upon following the factory service schedule (unless you get Shelby or Roush or ICON or some other third party to do the R&D and produce the better donk.)

 

[Knickell]

Does anyone know what oil (brand / type) Ford uses if you purchase the maintenance plan from them? I'm guessing regular oil-type-oil rather than synthetic, but candidly I don't know . . . .

Synthetic blend. I just took it in for its first service/break-in flush at 1,100 miles.

I have the maintenance plan up to 100K and will need to follow up and see if I can pay extra per service or upgrade my overall plan to full synthetic.

 

[Snakebitten]

Ford has recommendations. I get that. But their incentives are very different than mine, AND it's my truck now, not theirs.

Also keep in mind that when they first released the 3.5 Ecoboost, they "recommended" 5w-20. It was right there in the manual just like 5w-30 is in the manual today. But a little over a year after releasing the motor there were already enough signs that it was a BIG mistake to worship at the alter of fuel economy to that degree, so they embarressly had to say oops, maybe 5w-30 would be better in this 100HP per liter motor.

The 3.5 Ecoboost high performance motor builders will, at least off record, tell you they think 5w-30 is still a little (admittedly not a lot) light for these. But if you do run it they emphasize WAY SHORTER oil change intervals than Fords recommendations.

When I asked "my guy" about changing my factory oil at 1700 miles, he laughed and said "yea, I'd change it now, but that's 1650 miles later than I would have done it".

I love this truck. My 3rd Ecoboost F150 in those 11 years of Ecoboost F150's. And none of them have needed timing chains or Phasers or the other what some believe are oil related issues.

By the way, I'm not preaching and I love oil threads. They are fun as long as everyone smiles and has a little friendly banter.

And before anyone asks, I use Amsoil 0-40 Signature Series in my 3.5 Ecoboost motors. The 0 doesn't really come into play for me down here in the tropics, but the 40 does. I admit that I have to be dishonest and get my receipt to show 5-30 because of the Ford small print on warranty.

As for oil change intervals, I look at it as if I wasn't willing to pour the oil I just drained right back into my motor, then ain't I admitting the oil that was in my motor 10 minutes ago isn't good enough to be in my motor?

Oil is cheap vitamins for my VERY expensive motor.

 

[don.mullins]

For context, I buy and keep my vehicles a long time. I owned my previous F-250 for 19 years and 362k miles. I plan on keeping my Powerboost for 20 years as well.

The engine management in the ‘21 is all new to me, but as a technology worker, I also believe the engineers do try to get it right. I have been nothing but pleased in how I see the engine management systems work in this truck. For example, the truck threw a code for poor fuel quality when I got some low octane, probably low grade fuel in the middle of nowhere on an RV trip. Adding some fuel additive at the next fill up (and making sure I got top tier premium) cleared it up. I also see the engine oil life adjust as my towing mileage varies - I had a recent 4300+ mile RV journey and the oil life shortened the interval accordingly.

I also spent some time chatting with the service techs on the topic of oil changes, expressing my goal of long term vehicle ownership. A couple of the techs also have ecoboost engines and also are long term owners (200k+ miles for one of them). The two things that stuck out were using an oil conditioner and spending the extra bucks on a oil system flush at oil change. All agreed that full synthetic + conditioner would work at a 10,000 mile change interval based on their personal experiences and what they see in the service department.

Based on my discussions, I decided to:

1. Do an oil system flush + oil change using the synthetic blend + oil conditioner @ 5,000 miles,
2. Do an oil system flush + oil change using full synthetic + oil conditioner @ 10,000 miles.
3. I will then do an oil system flush + oil change using full synthetic + oil conditioner every 10,000 miles, or when the truck tell me it is due - whichever comes first.

I am 12,000+ miles currently, so I have done steps 1 & 2 and I’m just into my first 10,000 interval.

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

They use a synthetic blend. I prefer to use Mobil 1 Extended Performance, which meets the proper Ford spec and is a better oil than synthetic blend.

Ford also had full synthetic a few years ago. I believe this is still available. Probably just a re-container of Some oil brand though.

 

[Seahawk51]

Do I really need to wait 10k miles to change the oil for the first time??

I was getting ready to tow my new camper about 4,500 miles, and the truck had about 3,400, so I went ahead and changed it. I'm closing in on 10,000, and the truck is telling me its time for an oil change. I monitored it on the trip and I'm think there are sensors in this truck that are calculating the useful life of the oil based on the workload you put on the truck. That said, I would have changed mine by 5,000 miles anyway, trip or no trip.

 

[imnuts]

The two things that stuck out were using an oil conditioner and spender the extra bucks on a oil system flush at oil change. All agreed that full synthetic + conditioner would work at a 10,000 mile change interval based on their personal experiences and what they see in the service department.

What do they consider an "oil system flush", and what are they using as an "oil conditioner"?

 

[don.mullins]

What do they consider an "oil system flush", and what are they using as an "oil conditioner"?

The flush is something they add to the oil prior to the oil change, run the engine for a period of time, then drain it. It is supposed to help clear out any residual buildup.

The conditioner they add to the new oil when they add it to the engine. They claim that both together help prevent buildup in any of the oil passages.

During an oil change, they will also add a fuel conditioner to the current tank if you opt for it. All the products are from BG.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I read that Ford prohibits using additives or "flush" chemicals.
Unless someone has some hard science with facts and data, I see no point in altering the factory schedule. I would normally go with a full synthetic, but to me, this is not an expensive engine (it came "free" with the truck … : ) and I'll dispose of the truck before the warranty expires.
It's not about the engine that I'd worry about costs, it's all the gizmos and electric motors, sensors and switches …. that touchscreen … those fold-flat seats … I wonder what the statistics will be like at 30K miles or 100K miles.
If there was an engine warranty issue that had anything to do with tolerances, I'd expect Ford to test the fluids. I imagine they would disallow a warranty claim where there's evidence of additives or an oil that doesn't meet the spec.
The '21 PowerBoost benefits from years of ecoboost … "learning" … so I can appreciate that the EB has created an owner population with misgivings. Given the combined direct and port injection, I don't know what to expect. Not to mention the uniquely new case of an engine that can spend hours idling. Who knows?
I don't see it as prudent preventative maintenance to make frequent oil changes or use more expensive oils. If someone publishes scientific tests with hard data, I'll happily go pay $18 for a quart of synthetic instead of $6 for synthetic blend.
If we get 30K into this new Hybrid and people are reporting warranty problems, I'll pay attention and adapt to new information.
For now, It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it. : )

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