On going problem

[Jimi]

So I took my power boost back to the dealership for the deep sleep mode problem again. I was told on this visit that, this is a ongoing problem with 3 of the F150 models. He never mentioned which three though. He also told me Ford is working on this problem, because they have been contacted about this from other customers. He said there will be a update released later this summer, or early fall.

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[Graygoose2021]

the 3...

The half ton
The F150
all the F150

 

[Dadofjax]

Hey that's better than the "it's normal" response a lot of here have heard from dealerships when they have issues.

 

[HammaMan]

Amazing to see just how much trouble ford causes themselves when they could simply change the charge strat. From everything various forum users have gathered their BMS's charging strategy is just straight poo. If someone remote starts their vehicle, it shouldn't just float a ~75% SOC batt, it should charge the damn thing and not to just 80%.

 

[Snakebitten]

I've monitored the 12V battery SOC and battery charging strategy to what some might call obsessively.

I don't know battery chemistry and maximum charge rates or all the other specifications for Lion/LifePo4/AGM etc.....

I just KNOW what the Powerboost is doing with the AGM and the small Hybrid Battery. I have insane amount of data and history now.

Whatever 90-100% of charge is on a 12V AGM battery is, it appears Ford's management/charging strategy is intentionally aiming to stay away from. Instead it seems to prefer it dancing between the mid-high 70's, and will back off to almost no charging if it gets much over 85%.

Note that I have that Forscan edit, whatever it actually does, set to 95%

I don't think the truck goes into it's Jeckyl/Hyde behavior at 75% SOC or above. So I don't experience the deep sleep or erroneous error messages or the alarming alerts. But the risk of a truck parked a few days or being disturbed (woken up) multiple times that was parked at 75% SOC to begin with? Especially if it's already an "injured" AGM.

I've caught mine below 12.3V on multiple occasions. Simply because it hadn't been driven yet that day, or I had been messing around with it (maintenance, cleaning, installing options) which was keeping it "awake". I don't know exactly what Voltage is the Jeckyl/Hyde threshold, but 12.2V is where I draw the line. If I catch it there, I either start the truck and let it sit (Powerboosts are awesome in this state) or I throw a charger on it that night and let it do it's AGM smart charge routine.

Some folks despise any of this being necessary, and I don't fault them a bit for feeling that way. But it doesn't bother me that much since I find it both fascinating and a challenge to see if I can keep this factory battery healthy enough to get a couple of years out of it.

 

[thebigdu]

I've monitored the 12V battery SOC and battery charging strategy to what some might call obsessively.

I don't know battery chemistry and maximum charge rates or all the other specifications for Lion/LifePo4/AGM etc.....

I just KNOW what the Powerboost is doing with the AGM and the small Hybrid Battery. I have insane amount of data and history now.

Whatever 90-100% of charge is on a 12V AGM battery is, it appears Ford's management/charging strategy is intentionally aiming to stay away from. Instead it seems to prefer it dancing between the mid-high 70's, and will back off to almost no charging if it gets much over 85%.

Note that I have that Forscan edit, whatever it actually does, set to 95%

I don't think the truck goes into it's Jeckyl/Hyde behavior at 75% SOC or above. So I don't experience the deep sleep or erroneous error messages or the alarming alerts. But the risk of a truck parked a few days or being disturbed (woken up) multiple times that was parked at 75% SOC to begin with? Especially if it's already an "injured" AGM.

I've caught mine below 12.3V on multiple occasions. Simply because it hadn't been driven yet that day, or I had been messing around with it (maintenance, cleaning, installing options) which was keeping it "awake". I don't know exactly what Voltage is the Jeckyl/Hyde threshold, but 12.2V is where I draw the line. If I catch it there, I either start the truck and let it sit (Powerboosts are awesome in this state) or I throw a charger on it that night and let it do it's AGM smart charge routine.

Some folks despise any of this being necessary, and I don't fault them a bit for feeling that way. But it doesn't bother me that much since I find it both fascinating and a challenge to see if I can keep this factory battery healthy enough to get a couple of years out of it.

Alright, dumb it down for us laymen. Is SOC adjustment an essential Forscan mod on these trucks in your humble opinion?

 

[Gros Ventre]

I've monitored the 12V battery SOC and battery charging strategy to what some might call obsessively.

I don't know battery chemistry and maximum charge rates or all the other specifications for Lion/LifePo4/AGM etc.....

I just KNOW what the Powerboost is doing with the AGM and the small Hybrid Battery. I have insane amount of data and history now.

Whatever 90-100% of charge is on a 12V AGM battery is, it appears Ford's management/charging strategy is intentionally aiming to stay away from. Instead it seems to prefer it dancing between the mid-high 70's, and will back off to almost no charging if it gets much over 85%.

Note that I have that Forscan edit, whatever it actually does, set to 95%

I don't think the truck goes into it's Jeckyl/Hyde behavior at 75% SOC or above. So I don't experience the deep sleep or erroneous error messages or the alarming alerts. But the risk of a truck parked a few days or being disturbed (woken up) multiple times that was parked at 75% SOC to begin with? Especially if it's already an "injured" AGM.

I've caught mine below 12.3V on multiple occasions. Simply because it hadn't been driven yet that day, or I had been messing around with it (maintenance, cleaning, installing options) which was keeping it "awake". I don't know exactly what Voltage is the Jeckyl/Hyde threshold, but 12.2V is where I draw the line. If I catch it there, I either start the truck and let it sit (Powerboosts are awesome in this state) or I throw a charger on it that night and let it do it's AGM smart charge routine.

Some folks despise any of this being necessary, and I don't fault them a bit for feeling that way. But it doesn't bother me that much since I find it both fascinating and a challenge to see if I can keep this factory battery healthy enough to get a couple of years out of it.

After replacing my OEM battery with an off-the-shelf battery (fyi I use NAPA stuff) I've had zero problems... Roger all of the above, I did mine over a Thanksgiving Weekend where I couldn't afford to get stuck somewhere... One comment on the above: An AGM battery is susceptible to overcharging damage much more so than a typical flooded cell battery. This is because it has far less active materail in thinner plates. This gives it a very strong burst current output with lower internal resistance and lesser deep discharge capacity. The glass mats give it better structural integrity. On the other hand, if you over charge it you are gassing alot. Excessive gassing flakes off active material that then reduces capacity. This is the weakness of an AGM battery and I infer that is why Ford set its system to reduce charging rate to near zero at 12.6 VDC. At the end of the day based on my experience, I think Ford had/has bad batteries somehow....... I can't figure out how this can be, you'd think chemistry is chemistry, but observation of all of the rigmarole going on in these posts tells me something's up!!

 

[Snakebitten]

Brevity isn't my virtue, so my wordy posts are because I am not the genius guru that this forum has several!

Honestly, I don't know what/if the benefits are of that recommended Forscan edit is. Perhaps I should put it back to the factory value (80%) and then compare.

One thing it DOESN'T appear to accomplish is what it implies that it does. It doesn't pressure the charging strategy to get the AGM to 95%. That's obvious, from what I witness.

My battery is now 409 days in service. I'm guessing a brand new fully charged AGM would certainly start out with higher daily SOC compared to my current battery. It probably would lose less static charge early on when the truck sat for days or was disturbed multiple times. But I think it wouldn't take but a few months and it will have been dragged down into the 12.3-12.6 range for its operating parameters.

Just a prediction. I could be wrong. There are some fellas who were monitoring closely and replaced their batteries, but I haven't seen them report if the honeymoon SOC eventually "settled" into Ford's apparent norm.

 

[9663mu]

Good luck!
On mine they just told me it was bad batch of batteries and replaced it . No issues after new battery,

 

[Gros Ventre]

Brevity isn't my virtue, so my wordy posts are because I am not the genius guru that this forum has several!

Honestly, I don't know what/if the benefits are of that recommended Forscan edit is. Perhaps I should put it back to the factory value (80%) and then compare.

One thing it DOESN'T appear to accomplish is what it implies that it does. It doesn't pressure the charging strategy to get the AGM to 95%. That's obvious, from what I witness.

My battery is now 409 days in service. I'm guessing a brand new fully charged AGM would certainly start out with higher daily SOC compared to my current battery. It probably would lose less static charge early on when the truck sat for days or was disturbed multiple times. But I think it wouldn't take but a few months and it will have been dragged down into the 12.3-12.6 range for its operating parameters.

Just a prediction. I could be wrong. There are some fellas who were monitoring closely and replaced their batteries, but I haven't seen them report if the honeymoon SOC eventually "settled" into Ford's apparent norm.

Well... After installing that replacement battery, I did a "Wetting down charge." That took battery terminal voltage up to about 13.2 VDC, which is the expected fully charged voltage based on chemistry. Then when I installed it in the truck, the system ran it back down to 12.6 VDC where it has sat for 2 1/2 years. No problemo, No peeps, no Sleeps. So I conclude again that Ford just bought into a bad batch of batteries. If the initial occurrence of battery issues hadn't occurred over Thanksgiving Weekend travels, would I have tried to stretch out the life of that OEM battery? Probably, I'm that kind of guy with an engineering mindset and a career that involved the care and feeding of really big flooded cell lead acid batteries. But I didn't because of family travels... So being on the sidelines now, it just tells me that those OEM Batteries had something wrong. Will setting the fully charged value to 95% shorten the life of the battery? Maybe, watch things and see. Will it give you more capacity? Theoretically yes, but I suspect not really as a practical matter given how AGM batteries are put together. When you get out to an 8 year life on that battery, put up a post.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Ya know... comes to mind that Ford assembled alot of trucks and put them out in the field awaiting chips... Well, that assembly line also brought a bunch of batteries along with those trucks. Ford probably either let those batteries sit in those trucks or put those batteries on the shelf awaiting shipment of those trucks... Lead acid batteries do not like being left to stand. They need to be "worked." Standing means impurities start plating out on the active material. This has the effect of reducing capacity while seeming to show normal operating voltage. I just wonder if that might be the problem here... And why a new store bought battery seemed to fix things... I just wonder...

 

[Snakebitten]

Interesting.
So your 2.5 year old aftermarket AGM battery sits at a static charge of 12.6V day in and day out?

I'm buying a fresh battery today if that's going to be the "floor" of SOC!

For me, 12.6 is the ceiling!

 

[PaulGrun]

Let me just quickly point out the high likelihood that we as a community are misinterpreting the meaning of the “target SOC” setting, believing that it represents a target SOC fir which the BMS aims, as though the system attempts to increase the rate of charge whenever the SOC is “below” the target.
But according to a Ford patent from a couple years ago, the so-called target represents a value “above” which the system attempts to draw the battery down. So assuming the target is set at 80%, any time the BMS calculates that the current SOC is above 80%, it will increase the load on the battery in an attempt to burn off charge and keep the SoC close to the “target”.
I am not sure of the significance of this because regardless of how one interprets the “target SOC”, the net result is the same - the battery is being kept at or close to the target SOC.
Just a another data point and food for thought.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Interesting.
So your 2.5 year old aftermarket AGM battery sits at a static charge of 12.6V day in and day out?

I'm buying a fresh battery today if that's going to be the "floor" of SOC!

For me, 12.6 is the ceiling!

Yep... Like I said, No problemo, No peeps, no sleeps... Has just operated as programmed, I haven't fiddled with the programming.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Let me just quickly point out the high likelihood that we as a community are misinterpreting the meaning of the “target SOC” setting, believing that it represents a target SOC fir which the BMS aims, as though the system attempts to increase the rate of charge whenever the SOC is “below” the target.
But according to a Ford patent from a couple years ago, the so-called target represents a value “above” which the system attempts to draw the battery down. So assuming the target is set at 80%, any time the BMS calculates that the current SOC is above 80%, it will increase the load on the battery in an attempt to burn off charge and keep the SoC close to the “target”.
I am not sure of the significance of this because regardless of how one interprets the “target SOC”, the net result is the same - the battery is being kept at or close to the target SOC.
Just a another data point and food for thought.

...And that is what I observed following the "Wetting down charge" I did. That initial charge took the battery terminal voltage to 13.2 VDC, which is expected. The I observed the system ran the voltage back down to 12.6 VDC. I infer that is Ford's adaptation to preventing an overcharge condition.

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