Sponsored

Projected lifespan of the Powerboost lithium battery?

Jus Cruisin

Well-known member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
878
Reaction score
924
Location
Metro Detroit
Vehicles
2023 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 4X4 - 6.2l
Occupation
Very retired
This is absolutely no concern for me. The truck will be long gone before the warranty is out.
Sponsored

 

Polo08816

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
375
Reaction score
201
Location
MD
Vehicles
2014 BMW 335i
This is absolutely no concern for me. The truck will be long gone before the warranty is out.
The next buyer will just factor the replacement cost of a hybrid battery into the used pricing of the vehicle.
 

Jus Cruisin

Well-known member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
878
Reaction score
924
Location
Metro Detroit
Vehicles
2023 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 4X4 - 6.2l
Occupation
Very retired
The next buyer will just factor the replacement cost of a hybrid battery into the used pricing of the vehicle.
Nah, not at 2-3 years. That's all I figure on keeping it. That won't be a factor until 6-8 years.
 

jeffcrum

Well-known member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
625
Reaction score
670
Location
Lake Saint Louis, MO
Vehicles
2021 F-150 XLT 302A Powerboost 7.2kw Inverter
Occupation
Computer programmer
The generator alone being able to power a small house's critical appliances during an extended power outage is enough to sell people on the Hybrid 7.2kW option. As soon as I showed my wife this feature, I had sold her on the truck.
I totally agree here. We have been looking for a new truck for a while now. But, since Covid, we both are teleworking full time. So, no need to spring for it yet. And, I don't expect to be back in an office this year even.

But, with the free advertising from the Texas cold spell I expect this truck to be unattainable in the near future. Come next year when I am ready, I expect none to be available or the premium price to be outrageous.

After explaining that to my wife, she agreed and I found one on a lot 50 miles from me. Drove there Saturday and bought it.
 

Tecdiver

Well-known member
First Name
Dana
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
99
Reaction score
55
Location
Michigan, USA
Vehicles
2021 F150 Lariat PB
Occupation
Corporate shill
Based off what I’ve seen, I don’t know if a battery upgrade would be viable. It seems like it would be pretty invasive to drop the old/used pack out of the truck and put a new one in. Not to mention the price. I’ve read reviews and stories on trying to replace the battery cells on hybrid and electric cars stating it’s so expensive it’s almost easier to replace the vehicle.

It would be awesome if Moore’s Law kicks in and the prices for the batteries get cheap enough. If so, upgrading the battery packs on hybrid and electric cars could be the new version of tuning an internal combustion engine!
This is probably going to be a problem for most EV/hybrids using current battery technology. All of these battery replacement concerns, however, simply vanish once we perfect nano diamond batteries - except that the batteries will outlast the vehicles (maybe even us at 28,000 years!). It's real tech though - exciting stuff.
 

Sponsored

Longhorngary

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
108
Reaction score
120
Location
Austin, Texas
Vehicles
2017 Ford F150 302A soon to be 2021 F150 KR PB
The generator alone being able to power a small house's critical appliances during an extended power outage is enough to sell people on the Hybrid 7.2kW option. As soon as I showed my wife this feature, I had sold her on the truck.

As long as it works as expected without too many mishaps or issues over the next few years, Hybrid 7.2kW trucks are going to be extremely sought-after on the used truck market as contractors look to get native power in their trucks for the price of a used truck.

Imagine being able to go anywhere, unload your contractor table saw or welder, and start cutting or welding. No need to have a client open their garage for power, or no need to search for power on a job site if all you're going to do is a few hours of work.

We'll have to see how the next few years play out, but I believe that Ford hit a home run on this powertrain/generator combo.
the 7.2kw generator sold me and my brother one.
 

RexTX

Active member
First Name
Rex
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
43
Reaction score
21
Location
DFW TX
Vehicles
2007 Mustang Shelby GT, 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid
Occupation
retired
My current DD is a 2008 Escape Hybrid, with 200K miles on it. The battery is showing it's age. Electric range is much less, and it dips into EV rarely once it's rolling. But the car still gets around just fine, still has the power boost on acceleration. Most noticeable issue is fuel economy is off about 10%, which means 27-28 mpg. Biggest issue is that it uses the HV battery to turn the electric motor to start the ICE - it has no starter motor. If the car sits more than 2-3 days without being driven, the charge bleeds off and it hasn't enough voltage to start the ICE. From what I'm reading, the PB system is different enough that it should not have this issue.

But to answer the question, I expect 10 years from now the batteries will be less effective, the fuel economy will drop a bit, but they will still be great trucks.
 

blueovalguy

Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
101
Reaction score
105
Location
NY
Vehicles
2021 Lariat Powerboost
The generator alone being able to power a small house's critical appliances during an extended power outage is enough to sell people on the Hybrid 7.2kW option. As soon as I showed my wife this feature, I had sold her on the truck.

As long as it works as expected without too many mishaps or issues over the next few years, Hybrid 7.2kW trucks are going to be extremely sought-after on the used truck market as contractors look to get native power in their trucks for the price of a used truck.

Imagine being able to go anywhere, unload your contractor table saw or welder, and start cutting or welding. No need to have a client open their garage for power, or no need to search for power on a job site if all you're going to do is a few hours of work.

We'll have to see how the next few years play out, but I believe that Ford hit a home run on this powertrain/generator combo.
I couldn’t agree more. I power a tradeshow trailer and bring it to my customers offices and can’t begin to describe how easy it is to have power at my fingertips. Load it up to 3500 watts commonly and the thing is flawless (knock on wood). Very curious to see the future of this technology (ie expedition, F250, etc).
 

Gros Ventre

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Threads
38
Messages
1,578
Reaction score
1,065
Location
Western Wyoming
Vehicles
Powerboost
Careful about powering your house. The 21 PB setup cannot be connected to the house with a single 240V cable. When you do that you'll get a ground fault and the generator shuts itself down (ie it senses the neutral gound bond required in all homes circuitry). This because it is setup as a Bonded Neutral Generator as required by OSHA for contractor worksite use. You'll have to run things with multiple 120v extension cords.
 

Sponsored


LD50

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
95
Reaction score
84
Location
IL
Vehicles
2019 Raptor, 2022 Lariat on order
Not worried in the least about the battery. The warranty terms say that anything less than either 65% or 70% (not sure which as I'm not clear of which category the PB falls into in the warranty terms) of full battery capacity within the 8yr/100K is cause for replacement. I'll probably purchase an 8yr/100k ESP to keep the rest of the truck covered. If it's a dependable truck and I keep it that long, I'll probably take it in sometime prior to the expiration and tell them I think the capacity of the battery is down. If it is, they replace it. If not, I'll be satisfied that it's gone that long and is still above 70%.

The only thing that worries me on the warranty side is where they say that if the battery sits for more than 2 weeks in a fully discharged state it can void the warranty. My truck sits quite a bit during the winter months and I'm not aware of a method to easily figure out the charge state of the battery.
 

F-150 Prius

Well-known member
First Name
Adam
Joined
May 12, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
530
Reaction score
522
Location
Silicon Valley
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Platinum PowerBoost FX-4 6½
Occupation
Software Algorithms
@Zyvin - I see you're a new member here. Welcome!
Maybe you're not familiar with some of the unwritten rules of this Forum, so I'll politely share with you that personal snipes are frowned upon on this forum. If you don't agree with what someone posts, fine. But don't take a swipe at someone you don't know. That behavior is better suited for the "other" forum.
Thanks, and we all look forward to constructive comments in the future.
(y)
true, but "play your campfire guitar somewhere else" … that's pretty funny … I don't even know what the thread is discussing … : )
 

F-150 Prius

Well-known member
First Name
Adam
Joined
May 12, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
530
Reaction score
522
Location
Silicon Valley
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Platinum PowerBoost FX-4 6½
Occupation
Software Algorithms
fwiw, battery manufacturer warranties in EVs are a percentage of available kWh after a period of years. e.g. 65% after 5 years. The 1.5kWh battery in the PB is so understressed, so long as its BMS and thermals are dialed in, it's going to last – it will be held between 10% and 80%, never allowed to go flat, never over-charged, never charged too quickly, too hot or too cold, never subjected to sustained peak load – these are the things that degrade traction batteries in a Tesla for example.
Also, by the time they start to degrade or report error codes, say in 2-3 years at the earliest, batteries are going to be so cheap and abundant (relatively) that even sourcing a tiny, little 1.5 kWh pack will be more expensive than stuffing 5kWh into the same enclosure for 1/10th the cost today.

There's Wright's Law which observes as leading edge technology production doubles, the cost reduces by a fixed amount. (except for bloody iPhones … : )



(yes, I had to google that to check the details … : )
 

jfried

Well-known member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
197
Reaction score
126
Location
Ontario, Canada
Vehicles
Lightning Reserved, 2022 Platinum on Order
Not worried in the least about the battery.
Personally, I think Ford did a GENIUS design/concept with respect to the powerboost battery.

One of the biggest problems with hybrid or electric vehicles is that they seemingly become "disposable" sooner - as nobody wants to stick a ~$20,000 battery into a 10 year old car.

With this system, the battery is really "secondary" to the operation of the vehicle. Even if it degrades to 25% capacity, the average driver / user is not going to notice it.

That being said, I highly doubt we'll see anyone come up with an aftermarket solution for a bigger battery... the cost to setup battery manufacturing is astronomical. The cost to ship a bigger battery would be insane as an aftermarket add-on.

I don't see Ford doing it either.... they don't really have a massive incentive to "upgrade" 10 year old vehicles. Sure, they'll have a bigger / better option with the next gen of F150, but they'd much rather sell you a new truck for $60k than they would a battery upgrade for $8k.
 

F-150 Prius

Well-known member
First Name
Adam
Joined
May 12, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
530
Reaction score
522
Location
Silicon Valley
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Platinum PowerBoost FX-4 6½
Occupation
Software Algorithms
Personally, I think Ford did a GENIUS design/concept with respect to the powerboost battery.

One of the biggest problems with hybrid or electric vehicles is that they seemingly become "disposable" sooner - as nobody wants to stick a ~$20,000 battery into a 10 year old car.

With this system, the battery is really "secondary" to the operation of the vehicle. Even if it degrades to 25% capacity, the average driver / user is not going to notice it.

That being said, I highly doubt we'll see anyone come up with an aftermarket solution for a bigger battery... the cost to setup battery manufacturing is astronomical. The cost to ship a bigger battery would be insane as an aftermarket add-on.

I don't see Ford doing it either.... they don't really have a massive incentive to "upgrade" 10 year old vehicles. Sure, they'll have a bigger / better option with the next gen of F150, but they'd much rather sell you a new truck for $60k than they would a battery upgrade for $8k.
well, definitely a lowercase genius design … 5kWh would have been capitalized, Genius … 50kWh would have been all caps GENIUS
p.s. my first 2005 Prius was hotly sought after when I sold it because the battery was still charging and the local Prius guy put out the word I was selling … you'd think the trunk was left full of weed or something, people were so motivated … actually, wait …
Sponsored

 
 




Top