F-150 Hybrid PowerBoost vs. F-150 Lightning Comparison: Towing, Hauling, Acceleration (Cars.com)

AlxMlr · Sep 8, 2022

Imagine having to stop for 45 mins every 127 miles while towing. Dismal! I love the truck but it would take an extra 10 hours to go 1000 miles...not to mention having to unhook the trailer every time!

Antimatter22 · Sep 8, 2022

I feel the Lightning would probably be enough for a majority of F150 owners. Obviously if you tow a lot, especially long distance, and go on a lot of long trips then you'll likely be stuck with combustion engines for a while. People who use their trucks for the occasional home improvement runs or towing around town, the truck would be great for that.

Is it worth $7500-10000 premium over gas? That's subjective. If there was a similarly spec'd lightning at MSRP on the lot when I got my Powerboost I'd have to think hard which one to get. I'll be interested in seeing what the next gen Lightning will offer.

Porpoise Hork · Sep 9, 2022

AlxMlr said:
Imagine having to stop for 45 mins every 127 miles while towing. Dismal! I love the truck but it would take an extra 10 hours to go 1000 miles...not to mention having to unhook the trailer every time!

Recharging is a big issue. In most cities there are plenty of the fast charge stations around, but your still looking at 10-15+ minutes to charge the battery. Get out to the country and you will be hard pressed to find charging stations. Buddy of mine moved back from noCal and had to drive his Tesla back. Said it was the worst driving experience having to plan out where to stop to recharge as he passed station after station. Compare that to 2-3 minutes to fill with gas....

Why they can't just put a damned alternator on the EV's with a diminishing returns charging system to extend the range to say 7-800 miles between mandatory full charge cycles is beyond me...

HSV_MIkeJ · Sep 11, 2022

Porpoise Hork said:
Recharging is a big issue. In most cities there are plenty of the fast charge stations around, but your still looking at 10-15+ minutes to charge the battery. Get out to the country and you will be hard pressed to find charging stations. Buddy of mine moved back from noCal and had to drive his Tesla back. Said it was the worst driving experience having to plan out where to stop to recharge as he passed station after station. Compare that to 2-3 minutes to fill with gas....

Why they can't just put a damned alternator on the EV's with a diminishing returns charging system to extend the range to say 7-800 miles between mandatory full charge cycles is beyond me...

The draw to turn the alternator would be higher than the charge rate.

MJ Heat · Sep 11, 2022

The day will likely come when the Lightning is an overall better choice than the Powerboost. In my opinion, we ain’t there yet, & we have a long way to go.

Porpoise Hork · Sep 12, 2022

HSV_MIkeJ said:
The draw to turn the alternator would be higher than the charge rate.

A 12v 200 amp alternator only requires between 2-4hp to run less than most ac compressors. Input on a standard alternator is 12v at about 2 amps to excite the windings so the unit will generate electrical power. The output voltage can be set to 6, 12, 24, 48v etc and amperage easily up to 200 on demand by the system. They could configure it so it only engages at say freeway speeds to minimize excessive drag on the system as well as divide the battery up into banks when active. Have it so the system would charge the left bank at say 60% remaining capacity, bring that bank up to 80% of full then switch to the other bank. Repeat this charging cycle with each bank so it beings it up to say 80% of the last charge cycle the alternator completed. Eventually the system will require a complete charge from an external source.

HSV_MIkeJ · Sep 12, 2022

Porpoise Hork said:
A 12v 200 amp alternator only requires between 2-4hp to run less than most ac compressors. Input on a standard alternator is 12v at about 2 amps to excite the windings so the unit will generate electrical power. The output voltage can be set to 6, 12, 24, 48v etc and amperage easily up to 200 on demand by the system. They could configure it so it only engages at say freeway speeds to minimize excessive drag on the system as well as divide the battery up into banks when active. Have it so the system would charge the left bank at say 60% remaining capacity, bring that bank up to 80% of full then switch to the other bank. Repeat this charging cycle with each bank so it beings it up to say 80% of the last charge cycle the alternator completed. Eventually the system will require a complete charge from an external source.

https://adjustmycar.com/how-many-rpm-does-car-alternator-need/

4 HP to produce 100A at 12 Volts, if you raise the voltage to 400 Volts which is what Telsa batteries are and I guess the Lightning's are, the current it could provide would be about 6 Amps which a very very tiny, and I doubt would be enough to even drive the alternator.

Porpoise Hork · Sep 12, 2022

HSV_MIkeJ said:
https://adjustmycar.com/how-many-rpm-does-car-alternator-need/

4 HP to produce 100A at 12 Volts, if you raise the voltage to 400 Volts which is what Telsa batteries are and I guess the Lightning's are, the current it could provide would be about 6 Amps which a very very tiny, and I doubt would be enough to even drive the alternator.

My point was they wouldn't charge the entire battery pack with the alternator, but could sub divide it into sections and route power from the alternator to lower voltage banks requiring charge while the others are continuing to power the EV. It's not as if the system requires the entire battery's output capacity to maintain freeway speeds. So split it up into sections with one bank powering the car while another receives a partial recharge when needed from the alternator, then shift to another bank when the current drive bank is depleted by say 50-60% or something. Something like that if engineered correctly could easily increase the EV range from 2-300 miles to upwards of 6-700 or more depending on how they set it up.

I've built systems using a small DC motor to spin an alternator at about 2500 rpm where it not only would it provide plenty or power to the motor but also charge multiple deep cycle batteries on s smart charging switch like we used to use back in the 70's and 80's on dual battery trucks to provide power for a small popup camper for days where we didn't have a generator handy. So it will work just needs to be adapted to modern EV's.

imnuts · Sep 12, 2022

How do you think you're going to get more power out of the alternator than the batteries are supplying? In a perfect world, you could have two DC->DC transformers (400VDC to 12VDC then back to 400VDC) and have no power loss. In the real world, you'll lose power due to resistance and heat losses. That is just to have a simple voltage change. Add in a motor to run an alternator (essentially another motor) and now you're adding additional inefficiencies to the system. If what you're saying worked, Lightning owners could drive almost indefinitely by charging their batteries via the 240V ProPower...

Porpoise Hork · Sep 12, 2022

imnuts said:
How do you think you're going to get more power out of the alternator than the batteries are supplying? In a perfect world, you could have two DC->DC transformers (400VDC to 12VDC then back to 400VDC) and have no power loss. In the real world, you'll lose power due to resistance and heat losses. That is just to have a simple voltage change. Add in a motor to run an alternator (essentially another motor) and now you're adding additional inefficiencies to the system. If what you're saying worked, Lightning owners could drive almost indefinitely by charging their batteries via the 240V ProPower...

I never said it should be setup to charge the entire battery at one time. Sub divide the battery out to say 24-48v banks or what ever output voltage/amperage the alternator is configured for and when conditions for self charging are present the system activates and proceeds to charge the bank(s) that are below the charge/no charge threshold. It wouldn't be available 100% make it only when traveling at freeway speeds and only when say a for example 48v bank capacity is down to 50% then activate internal charge to bring that specific bank back up to 80% of full charge. Once at 80% move to the next bank that meets the charge requirement and so on. When cycling through the banks the next time that a previously internally charged bank requires charging again it only receives 80% of the previous charge level thus eventually all banks would require an external full charge cycle to bring all banks back to 100%. Once the external full charge is complete the internal charge counters are reset much like a trip odometer.

Honestly I have no idea if it would actually work, or if they haven't already tried to design something like this and found it to not be feasible. I brought up the idea with a buddy of mine a few years back who is an electrical engineer and he said on paper it might but would require a fair bit of R&D. Maybe more than manufacturers are willing to invest.

Calson · Sep 12, 2022

An electric vehicle works best were 99% of the time it can be charged at home or at a depot center as with garbage and delivery vehicles. Having to decouple a trailer to go to a EV charging station is not something I would want to do. It was bad enough with my diesel pickup and looking for truck stops to get fuel.

There is an optimum vehicle for a given situation but an EV is a special purpose vehicle that is limited for general use with current technology. Five years from now there will be cordless charging stations and faster charging battery packs with a greater charge capacity.

BLoflin · Sep 12, 2022

Porpoise Hork said:
I never said it should be setup to charge the entire battery at one time. Sub divide the battery out to say 24-48v banks or what ever output voltage/amperage the alternator is configured for and when conditions for self charging are present the system activates and proceeds to charge the bank(s) that are below the charge/no charge threshold. It wouldn't be available 100% make it only when traveling at freeway speeds and only when say a for example 48v bank capacity is down to 50% then activate internal charge to bring that specific bank back up to 80% of full charge. Once at 80% move to the next bank that meets the charge requirement and so on. When cycling through the banks the next time that a previously internally charged bank requires charging again it only receives 80% of the previous charge level thus eventually all banks would require an external full charge cycle to bring all banks back to 100%. Once the external full charge is complete the internal charge counters are reset much like a trip odometer.

Honestly I have no idea if it would actually work, or if they haven't already tried to design something like this and found it to not be feasible. I brought up the idea with a buddy of mine a few years back who is an electrical engineer and he said on paper it might but would require a fair bit of R&D. Maybe more than manufacturers are willing to invest.

What??????

Basically you are asking why Ford didn't put in an (almost) perpetual energy system?

Besides, EV's already have "alternators" built in that is what allows them to have the range they do it, it's the electric motors being driven "backwards" during regenerative braking and coasting.

There is NO "conditions for self charging" (outside regen braking). Any energy being taken from the battery system is being used to move or keep moving. There is no extra energy that the battery then could use to run an alternator charging system to put that energy plus "extra" back into the battery system. Besides the fact there would be losses in that charging process.

Porpoise Hork · Sep 12, 2022

OMFG Does no one actually read????

I know that the current EV's only have regenerative braking equipped. I am well aware of this fact.

At no point did I say it's a perpetual motion system. The laws of thermal dynamics prohibit that.

What I am talking about is just that if it could be engineered in such a way it could possibly extend the range of current EV's by say 25-50% over what they have now.

Nothing more...

HSV_MIkeJ · Sep 12, 2022

Porpoise Hork said:
OMFG Does no one actually read????

I know that the current EV's only have regenerative braking equipped. I am well aware of this fact.

At no point did I say it's a perpetual motion system. The laws of thermal dynamics prohibit that.

What I am talking about is just that if it could be engineered in such a way it could possibly extend the range of current EV's by say 25-50% over what they have now.

Nothing more...

But as stated above, the charger would draw more current than it provided, so it would actually reduce the range.

F-150 Hybrid PowerBoost vs. F-150 Lightning Comparison: Towing, Hauling, Acceleration (Cars.com)

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